Help with KoF/SNK games

[EvilRyu2099]

Lol! You said it your self "A Groove was the best". Overtime K groove became the better of the two. Meter builds up in no time, Just Defending gives not only meter but also some health back. When in rage you get a 13% damage increase and your super gets a whopping 25% damage increase over standard level 3 super damage. K Groove makes upper tier characters (Sagat, Blanka, Yamazaki, Hibiki, etc) even more powerful then if they were used on A groove! K Groove still has the important mobile mechanics like Running and Small hops.

Lol I like how you delayed your post so I can't rebut.. Anywho that's moot.. Most you have listed isn't even all the top tier.. A groove Sakura was one of the best character/meter combos in game.. Her custom could basically take 80% of your life if fully connected.. She had a dive kick that allowed her to be a totally offensive and rushdown oriented character which worked perfectly with the groove.. Other top tiers like Vega and Bison were much better in A groove as well.. The whole point being it had to be an already strong character, with a devastating and long stunlocking custom combo.. Those three that I mentioned were amazing in said groove and there is no debate about it..

Small hops is strong but most would take roll/roll canceling over that... When you see a majority of top players using a roll groove whether it'd be A/N or C I think that's very telling.. K was certainly a top 3 groove IMO, but A was the best.. Let's just agree to disagree for once..

[EvilRyu2099]

I believe anything other than P and S groove were completely viable in high level play.. So I'll keep it at that.. I just think A and N were the best... Most players used those grooves.. I saw a lot of C grooves.. And personally, I had the most trouble with C groove player over N, K and A lol!!

[CD AGES]

- Delayed my post!? Don't know exactly what you mean by that. I'm using a cel phone so posting is a a drag

- lol! My list of high tier characters was not a complete list hence the term "etc" so don't get it twisted.

- N groove is great! There is no argument on my end regarding that. As a matter of fact, it's my Groove of choice

- Block Stun chip A groove damage lock isn't much of a threat against grooves with guard cancel rolling and/or guard cancel blowback mechanic which about half or more grooves in the game that provide such ability.

- 80% custom combos yeah! That's about as much damage you can dish out with a well executed K groove super behind a well landed combo or a well placed hit cornfirm normal. You also have more opportunity to land such a devastating combo as K groove usually builds up to max at around to 2 to 3 times a round (depending on fighter ratio and JD skill of course), this equals a lot more opportunity to land heavy damage over an A groove CC that is ready to go which leaves little room for error.

- my mistake Kgroove rage enhances Super damages by 35% as oppose to 25% I mentioned earlier. My mistake

[EvilRyu2099]

Sorry but the chipping on A groove over K groove..

http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Capcom_vs_SNK_2


Now I don't agree with the full tier list as I think Blanka is better in K and C groove and I think Geese K groove should be higher, but I can't argue with the top 4 for the most part. C groove Sagat is a beast.. I don't know why you still keep on arguing about this.. Because a majority won't agree with you.. It's probably easier for a beginner to win with C or K groove than to win with A groove but if you can execute the loops, A is just flat out better.. BTW, Yamazaki is NOWHERE near top or high tier..

[CD AGES]

Anywho, this debate has treaded away from my point of Roll Canceling being an important necessity as oppose to some game breaking glitch that was eventually taken away. You say most arcades have it enabled? I have yet to find absolutely ANY arcade setup that does not have Kara Roll canceling simply cuz people who know about it refuse to play it in versus competition! It's become a standard. People make it seem like Roll Canceling is this abusive tactic that completely breaks the game, which couldn't be further from the truth. There is perhaps as much of a risk/reward ratio with commiting to a Roll Cancel as there is to a parry. If you Roll cancel without much thought behind it, you will end up paying for it!

[EvilRyu2099]

Anywho, this debate has treaded away from my point of Roll Canceling being an important necessity as oppose to some game breaking glitch that was eventually taken away. You say most arcades have it enabled? I have yet to find absolutely ANY arcade setup that does not have Kara Roll canceling simply cuz people who know about it refuse to play it in versus competition! It's become a standard. People make it seem like Roll Canceling is this abusive tactic that completely breaks the game, which couldn't be further from the truth. There is perhaps as much of a risk/reward ratio with commiting to a Roll Cancel as there is to a parry. If you Roll cancel without much thought behind it, you will end up paying for it!

My point is that roll canceling was never intended to begin with.. It's not really Kara rolling, it's using it as a frame advantage in the beginning animation of the roll to cancel with a special or super and making said player invincible.. No it's not broken but 9 times out of 10 player A whom can effectively roll cancel will beat player B whom can't with both players having same skill.. I'm not saying it's cheap, but it is certainly a glitch.. And everyone acknowledges this..

[EvilRyu2099]

I just think this was a simple misunderstanding.. I never said RCing broke CvS2.. I said it's a glitch that can be abused, which is true.. There is no denying that it enhances any player if used properly and the programmers never intended for it to be in the game, but I never said it completely broke the game either.. If that were the case, you could eliminate the top 6 characters in MvC 2 while you're at it which basically was much more dominant in that game than RCing was in CvS 2..

[CD AGES]

Of course not! Of course it was never meant to be there by design. But neither was 2 in 1 cancels back in World Warrior days (a major fundamental to any fighting game onwards), Neither was Kara Throws in 3S (lol! And look at SF4! Some of the cast where built with kara throws and kara canceling from the get go thus development itself has ebraced it). Looks at KOF XIII and it's absolute gaurding tech! It's a glitch yes, but one that helps deal with grappler throw type characters which irons out the balance issues with overpowered command throw characters (I'm looking at you Goro and Hwa Jai lol!). Do you see my point here?

[EvilRyu2099]

Of course not! Of course it was never meant to be there by design. But neither was 2 in 1 cancels back in World Warrior days (a major fundamental to any fighting game onwards), Neither was Kara Throws in 3S (lol! And look at SF4! Some of the cast where built with kara throws and kara canceling from the get go thus development itself has ebraced it). Looks at KOF XIII and it's absolute gaurding tech! It's a glitch yes, but one that helps deal with grappler throw type characters which irons out the balance issues with overpowered command throw characters (I'm looking at you Goro and Hwa Jai lol!). Do you see my point here?

I think Kara throwing was intended and it wasn't as offensive based as RCing was.. WHen you stated Roll Kara, I basically took it as canceling into an end result roll to get to a safe point, but RCing is much different and much more versatile.. Kara throw and throwing by defense has been in SF since the II series so I believe it was intended.. I think there was more outrage over RCing than Kara throwing as it is much more game changing.. NOt to say it's totally broken because it isn't... But there are certainly people complaining about it.. I could care less tbh.. Whatever made me better in N and A grooves..

[CD AGES]

Kara throwing since SF 2!!!!???? LMAO! Really!?

How do you figure kara throwing being more defensive oriented!? Dosn't look so defensive when 3S chun is kara throwing you back to back in the corner LoL!