What happened to Micomsoft and Framemeister?

[marurun]

I am very surprised Micomsoft is so dependent upon a single IC. Most ICs that are removed from the market have some kind of similar successor.

[bmoc]

Personally I am holding out for an OSSC. Most use it as a line doubler but it can also do line tripling. And recently they added line 4x and 5x modes. The 5x mode can be cropped to 216p x 5 for 1080p. It is supposed to simulate overscan from consumer CRTs.

The OSSC does not have a frame buffer so it does not add any lag. The downside is that line tripling and above are not supported by all displays so YMMV. Another problem is that they can't keep up with demand. I've been on the waiting list for a few months.

[Sarge]

I need more of a solution for composite/S-video. Anyone know of a cheap, relatively lag-free scaling solution? I've got a TV Box 1440, but it uses VGA, and my current TV doesn't have a VGA jack. (Boo!)

I could probably also survive with some sort of conversion of VGA to HDMI (or component), but I have no idea what solutions out there are even worth looking at.

[Jagosaurus]

@Ziggy, all great points. Never really thought about 720 being divisible by 240. Mine are 1080 and theyre not perfect but in 4:3 the picture is decent. Definitely not as bad as some of the captured footage I've seen out there. Playable.

@bmoc, the OSSC inputs are an off put for me, the outputs are even worse... :/

DVI output only. No sound over that DVI either (yes, it is possible). Really?

Most will need a DVI to HDMI converter, then use the OSCC audio out via 3.5mm. So you need a TV that has a DVI or HDMI port with separate audio input, our an external speaker system. Why was sound such an afterthought? This doesn't allow anyone to use sound and video through a single standard HDMI port... just bad planning.

No composite or S video input is a real bummer. I realize the main draw is RGB in but I think those inputs are a must have option. It the prominent standard for millions.

In terms of input and output, we get a VGA/D-Sub15 input, a SCART input and a component video input. Output wise, there’s just a DVI connector

[Ziggy]

DVI output only. No sound over that DVI either (yes, it is possible). Really?

Most will need a DVI to HDMI converter, then use the OSCC audio out via 3.5mm. So you need a TV that has a DVI or HDMI port with separate audio input, our an external speaker system. Why was sound such an afterthought? This doesn't allow anyone to use sound and video through a single standard HDMI port... just bad planning.

It's not bad planning, it's HDMI licensing fees! DVI is free, but you have to pay to use HDMI on your product. It's really only doable if you're manufacturing on a large enough scale.

No composite or S video input is a real bummer. I realize the main draw is RGB in but I think those inputs are a must have option. It the prominent standard for millions.

Meh, composite and S-Video would be nice I guess. But if you're using such a device, you're fighting tooth and nail to be using the best video signal. That's RGB, VGA, and YPbPr. You don't buy a fancy scaler and then use composite video with it. That's like buying a Ferrari and never taking it out of first gear (for lack of a better analogy). If you're concerned about video quality to purchase a scaler, then you're probably also concerned with the problems composite brings.

To be honest, I would probably feel the same way if the Framemeister dropped composite and S-Video inputs. But when I think about it, I NEVER use them! I use the RGB input almost exclusively (I use the YPbPr input with the Wii for convenience). I've used my NES a couple of times, and it looks like ass (that's why it's only been a couple of times). And that's only because I've yet to mod my NES for better AV, and that's only because there's too many options available right now -- and THAT'S only a problem because I can't afford to buy all of the options!

It would be one thing if something commercial like the Framemeister (consumer grade) didn't have composite or S-Video, but I can understand not including them on the OSSC to keep cost down.

[bmoc]

What Ziggy said. Also there is an audio upgrade board now that will send audio out the DVI port if you aren't into adapters that do the same thing. I'll be going the external speaker route since I have them already.

[Jagosaurus]

I read the spill on the site a while back, is the big draw that it handles the odd resolutions (240p, 224i, etc) "better" not justv480i, correct? In other words what does this guy say his unit has over the XRGB mini?

@Ziggy, If 500 of these are are made this year, the HDMI licensing comes out to $11 per unit. If 1,000 are made, comes put tom $6 per.

Low-volume (10,000 units or less) HDMI Adopter Agreement - $5k/year + flat $1/unit administration fee.

I would've personally paid $20+. I'm okay with the DVI to HDMI if I can pass sound through with a standard DVI to HDMI adapter (see ? below).

True the end goal is RGB, but I'll be acquiring SCART cables over time. I dig how the XRGB allows me to buy the unit and use svid & composite until I get those cables. Plus your poor 3DO, CDi, SNES Mini, & N64 (others?) will require a mod.

@bmoc, that's good to know about audio upgrade over DVI. Then can you still just use a passive DVI to HDMI adapter to push sound & video over HDMI?

[bmoc]

@bmoc, that's good to know about audio upgrade over DVI. Then can you still just use a passive DVI to HDMI adapter to push sound & video over HDMI?

Yup. Here are the details. https://www.videogameperfection.com/pro ... e-service/

Honestly, I think it is only practical if you buy an OSSC with the audio board pre-installed. Otherwise you will pay out the nose on shipping. Unless you are capable of installing the upgrade on your own that is.

[Ziggy]

I read the spill on the site a while back, is the big draw that it handles the odd resolutions (240p, 224i, etc) "better" not justv480i, correct? In other words what does this guy say his unit has over the XRGB mini?

"What does it have over the XRGB" is the wrong way of looking at it. A retro gamer might consider it an alternative to the XRGB, but they're apples and oranges. They do different things. The OSSC doubles or triples each scanline. The XRGB upconverts (zooms) the image, using hardware/software to determine how it should look so it's not a blurry blown up low res garbage mess.

If you haven't already, check out My Life in Gaming's Framemesiter Alternatives episode:

Jump straight to OSSC talk:

The "big draw" for the OSSC, well that might depend on who you ask. I think that it's the Open Source Scan Converter. Runner up would be the price, if you're looking at it as an alternative to the XRGB mini. Preassembled units are about $190 USD, but DIY kits are way cheaper.

@Ziggy, If 500 of these are are made this year, the HDMI licensing comes out to $11 per unit. If 1,000 are made, comes put tom $6 per.

Low-volume (10,000 units or less) HDMI Adopter Agreement - $5k/year + flat $1/unit administration fee.

Yeah, and that's not terrible if you're running a business. But if you have a day job, and the OSSC is something you're doing in your spare time, fuck licensing fees. I sure don't have $5,000 that I can pay up front, and then yearly going forward. Also, who knows if they would even let him use HDMI with those weird out-of-spec resolutions.

True the end goal is RGB, but I'll be acquiring SCART cables over time. I dig how the XRGB allows me to buy the unit and use svid & composite until I get those cables. Plus your poor 3DO, CDi, SNES Mini, & N64 (others?) will require a mod.

Oh, I totally understand what you're saying. But it's understandable why he left those inputs off the OSSC.

@bmoc, that's good to know about audio upgrade over DVI. Then can you still just use a passive DVI to HDMI adapter to push sound & video over HDMI?

Looks like it, yes.

https://www.videogameperfection.com/pro ... ade-board/

"Upgrade your OSSC with a digital audio board. This allows you to send both digital audio and video down the DVI connector (or HDMI with a suitable passive adapter)."

[Jagosaurus]

Okay, looks like with the audio upgrade, my main gripe about the unit is gone. That's nice.

I can't harp too much on a DVI to HDMI (if it's also carrying sound!) bc for the XRGB I need a JP21 adapter also.

Funny you link that video. Just last night I watched their video on "demystifying Sync" and added the alternatives vid to my watch later queue. Will check it out when I have a moment.

We're looking at new TVs and they're almost all HDMI only these days. Might get the Framemeister now to enjoy it if I'm going to be buying a similar solution down the road later.

.... and let's be honest. I enjoy tinkering. It's half the fun in the Retro scene for me. A new & useful electronic never hurt anyone . I would enjoy setting up & saving different profiles for consoles while it would be a hassle for some.