Together Retro: Sonic & Knuckles

[Gunstar Green]

Yes, well, jokes aside the internet collectively shits on all things Sonic, and even this forum has never really been an exception, as fair as it tends to be otherwise.

I don't think I've ever had a Sonic related conversation of any nature here where someone didn't eventually pop in saying how this or that game sucks, or how the entire franchise sucks and everyone who likes it simply must be running on nostalgia, or how Sega should kill off the entire thing.

Which is minor compared to anywhere else. Even dedicated Sonic fan sites are filled to the brim with people bitching incessantly.

The constant negativity is tiresome.

The Sonic fandom is a screwed up entity for several reasons, the most critical being that Sonic means different things to different people due to how radically and often it has changed. Add western influenced products like cartoons and comics which have their own fanbases on top of the already schizophrenic games and you have a very screwed up, angry, broken base who all want the franchise to go in completely different directions.

As for people who don't like Sonic 3 & Knuckles, yeah it upsets me as a fan but it's no big deal. I'll probably unintentionally get them back by shitting on their favorite games later.

The funny thing with that is that I've always kind of compared Sonic and Megaman in my mind. Two of my favorite old franchises that I like to revisit and due to the game lengths, you can never just replay one... I always binge and go through all of them if I can.

Blue heroes, mad scientist villains, mysterious red rivals that turn out to be good guys showing up in the third game. Yep.

[Xeogred]

Blue heroes, mad scientist villains, mysterious red rivals that turn out to be good guys showing up in the third game. Yep.

Can't believe I never drew those parallels! haha awesome.

I think last year or the year before I made a claim here that I might have been a bigger Sonic fan than Mario. A lot of people freaked haha. But I can say... after my huge Mario binge last year, I think I am still a bigger fan of those, or they are objectively a bit better. Sonic was just more approachable and easier to replay over the years. I think around the N64's time when I was kind of moving on from the NES/SNES and played the Genesis more, it felt like from then on I was way more into Sonic than Mario for awhile.

Either way I love them both and there's lots of nostalgia. I wouldn't change anything about them and am glad they are very different in the bigger picture.

Anyhow, I finished up my Tails run today - Super Tails is very fun, but one thing I don't like about Sonic 3 & Knuckles is how little time you get to enjoy your transformations - even with the best possibilities, it feels like you super form is taken away too quickly (and of course, you don't get it at all in Sonic 3 as Tails) and again it feels like you don't get much of a chance to enjoy the hyper form either.

I imagine it's worse for Knuckles, as his game is shorter overall, right? I guess I'll find out next weekend, because I'm going to finish the game as Hyper Knuckles so I've finally completed the game 100%.

Yeah pretty sure Lava Reef is his final stage. But the final boss fight in his path is amazing.

[CFFJR]

I don't think this is true at all. Classic Sonic appears on the Games Beaten list often and Sonic Generations is very popular around the forum. People here generally love Sonic 1, 2 and CD aswell, although obviously you'll get people who are less fond of them. It's definitely Sonic 3 & Knuckles that's divisive here, not Sonic & Knuckles.

Also, people don't like the game, that's fine. It's definitely easily my least favourite of the Mega Drive Sonic games too, even if I actually quite like it. As a massive Zelda fan, I don't let it get to me when people on the forum express their dislike of Ocarina of Time or Skyward Sword, two of my favourites in the series. It's just their opinion.

Well I only said it because its been my experience dude. I actually made it a point some time back to not post in Sonic conversations (this thread being an exception) any longer because they tend to degenerate. But hey, maybe I'm just more sensitive about it.

I probably came off as all offended and butthurt, but I promise that's not the case.

Don't think I expect people to like the game across the board though, I don't, at all. It is indeed their opinion and I have no problem with that. Hell, since Mega Man was brought up, I'll mention again that my favorite Mega Man title is 7. There's an unpopular opinion. So yeah, I get that.

I just get very frustrated with the assertion (which gets thrown around at many people over many different games, admittedly) that the only reason I like something is because I liked it as a child and I just don't know any better.

Also, the complaint I was really making with that post, overall, was summed up nicely by Gunstar:

The Sonic fandom is a screwed up entity for several reasons, the most critical being that Sonic means different things to different people due to how radically and often it has changed. Add western influenced products like cartoons and comics which have their own fanbases on top of the already schizophrenic games and you have a very screwed up, angry, broken base who all want the franchise to go in completely different directions.

Which is painfully true.

Sonic is often a difficult series to be a fan of, which is a downright weird thing to say.

As for people who don't like Sonic 3 & Knuckles, yeah it upsets me as a fan but it's no big deal. I'll probably unintentionally get them back by shitting on their favorite games later.

This is also true.

For example, I'm in the middle of playing Deus Ex right now, and I seriously don't get it. That one's guaranteed to make at least a few people itch. (Sorry Xeogred!)

[Gunstar Green]

I think last year or the year before I made a claim here that I might have been a bigger Sonic fan than Mario. A lot of people freaked haha. But I can say... after my huge Mario binge last year, I think I am still a bigger fan of those, or they are objectively a bit better. Sonic was just more approachable and easier to replay over the years. I think around the N64's time when I was kind of moving on from the NES/SNES and played the Genesis more, it felt like from then on I was way more into Sonic than Mario for awhile.

Even I won't argue against the Mario series being objectively better.

Personally I'm a bigger fan of Sonic though only in regards to the 16-bit era. I love every mainline 16-bit Sonic game.

I really like, but am not nearly as enthusiastic about Super Mario World which I still feel is a step backwards from SMB 3. I love Yoshi's Island from a technical and artistic standpoint but feel ambivalent towards it as a game.

The Sonic games never felt as massive as a game like Super Mario World but they also always impressed me with the variety in the stages and enemy design where in a Mario game you've essentially seen all the set-pieces and baddies pretty early on.

That's another parallel that you can draw with Mega Man I suppose, there's not many stages in a Mega Man game but each is its own unique setting.

[MrPopo]

I really like, but am not nearly as enthusiastic about Super Mario World which I still feel is a step backwards from SMB 3.

I'm curious, why do you feel this way?

[Gunstar Green]

I really like, but am not nearly as enthusiastic about Super Mario World which I still feel is a step backwards from SMB 3.

I'm curious, why do you feel this way?

Ah, this is a hard spot to put me on because it's purely subjective.

I guess it felt like there was less diversity to the game. I liked all of 3's crazy power ups, I thought the themed worlds were done better and I like the overall style more.

I'm not saying I dislike SMW by any means, I just never thought it was as good as its predecessor and its never engaged me as much.

[BoneSnapDeez]

I like Quest 64 and Hydlide.

[MrPopo]

I like Quest 64 and Hydlide.

And you bought a Pico. We already know your judgment is compromised.

[Xeogred]

Having replayed the Mario's last year like I mentioned, I do think I might like SMW more than SMB3 now honestly. SMB3's stages are insanely brief most of the time. I do like the aesthetics and unique worlds a lot though. I just wish it had level select (as in being able to revisit levels) and the levels could generally be a little longer.

I was surprised at how much I enjoyed SMW another time around. I mean I've always loved it, but it had been so long it felt pretty fresh, and it's aged really well.

For example, I'm in the middle of playing Deus Ex right now, and I seriously don't get it. That one's guaranteed to make at least a few people itch. (Sorry Xeogred!)

[MrPopo]

For example, I'm in the middle of playing Deus Ex right now, and I seriously don't get it. That one's guaranteed to make at least a few people itch. (Sorry Xeogred!)

It's ok, CFFJR can go hang out with Hobie and not enjoy good games while we have a party over here.