Together Retro: Sonic & Knuckles

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Xeogred
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Re: Together Retro: Sonic & Knuckles

Post by Xeogred »

Beat! Probably took 80 minutes or so. I opted to skip the bonus stages since like others said, SSJ Sonic kind of breaks things.

I am surprised that people get lost in this one, going through it again I feel like this and S3 are some of the more linear ones. The level design is the most complex but usually with only a few main paths. The levels aren't hugely open like they can be in Sonic 1 or CD.

I will admit to not loving Sandopolis. Lots of weird gimmicks in both stages that slow it down. But really not that bad compared to some of the S3 levels. I'm not the biggest fan of some of the bosses either, especially the first one at the end of Death Egg haha, takes as long as it takes to get through the level to beat that thing.

Also never been a huge fan of Sky Sanctuary, but I guess most like it apparently? What other people are suggesting. Too many pits (I don't like Sonic 2's Wing Fortress either) and the backgrounds are a bit plain. It kind of feels like a stripped down Metallic Madness good future from CD.

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It's a noticeable step down from how good the Lava Reef levels looked to me, I always wish the temple stage with Knuckles was more of a real level. Lava Reef is so awesome, one of my favorites in all the games. For whatever reason 16bit caves always ruled. Lava Reef, Yoshi's Island cave levels, Super Metroid, etc, caves always ruled haha.

The additional powerups for Sonic were a very cool addition. Just kind of funny to get the bubble in S&K when there's barely any water, more indication that the two were probably meant to be one big package originally. I prefer Sonic's look in these compared to Sonic 2, but still like the stubbier Sonic in 1 and CD the most.

Death Egg is one of my favorites and a standout, because it was such a tease at the end of 2. You get there, it's this massive Sonic Death Star... and it's just the final boss fight haha. Even as a kid I wished it were a full level and so that blew my mind with S&K when I got to it.

Other silly beans... I like the bigger blockier look of the powerups in 1, 2, and CD, and I've always disliked how the animal trap things at the end of the levels in S3&K only release like 8 animals, compared to the dozens that Sonic 1 does haha. Just silly things I've always thought about over the years with them.

I like how S3&K handled the bonus stages though, hidden large rings in the levels. In Sonic 2 it's always tedious having to hold onto a bunch of rings and find checkpoints. Bonus stage wise I like S3&K's a lot and they've always seemed the most doable to me. Sonic 1's get really evil near the end and there's always 1 or 2 stages in Sonic 2 that trip me up. That said, S3&K seem the most abusable with the bonus stages, as others have said it's really easy to have all the Emeralds really early in the game if you know a lot of the hidden spots.

You know... I just realized, I feel like S3&K have the most "pits" in the classic games. I'm having a hard time thinking of any in CD right now. I know there's some in 2 off and on, and maybe the original here and there. It's always been up in the air between S&K and CD for me, but I usually do lean towards CD being my favorite in the end. I feel like there's not a single level that bugs me and the level design is consistently great, and the game is just downright gorgeous. Kind of a shame we didn't get more ~32bit Sonic's during the Saturn era that still had sprites, so... more Sonic games that looked like Megaman X4-X6 or something. I know there's Knuckles Chaotix, but it's always looked pretty weird to me. Never played much.

For final stages I still think Sonic 1 takes the cake. We all grew up with those insane water stages and Sonic 1 took it to the next level with its final stage. It's brutal, challenging, and epic. The water stages are tough in Sonic 1, but that's why I love them heh. That and the looks.

I went on a Mario binge last year and was thinking of revisiting Sonic... this may be the beginning of another binge. :lol:
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ZeroAX
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Re: Together Retro: Sonic & Knuckles

Post by ZeroAX »

BoneSnapDeez wrote:
ZeroAX wrote: And I'm surprised how long to beat has it clocked in at 3 hours....are you guys sure that's not the full Sonic3&K? Because I can beat S&K in a bit less than an hour if I'm focused.
Right. And this is your favorite game of all time? One you've played dozens of times?

Look at our Lost Vikings thread from the other year. I was able to roll through two different ports in about five days, while it took many others the whole dang month of off and on play to finish the game. That's because I love the game and have played it to the point of memorization. I would venture a guess that your S&K experience is similar.
Ah man that's unfair. Even if you aren't that good imo it shouldn't take more than 2 hours. I am saying that because when I was a kid and I was pretty bad at it my parents would only let me play an hour at a time and we'd make it to sky sanctuary with my sister.

I was just asking if the site listed the combined games, because i thought it was a high tally for an overall average of just s&k. Of course for some people it would take that much, but not sonic fans prefer to play fast
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BoneSnapDeez wrote:The success of a console is determined by how much I enjoy it.
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noiseredux
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Re: Together Retro: Sonic & Knuckles

Post by noiseredux »

Howlongtobeat puts s&k at 3 hrs and s3&k at 4 and a half on average.
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Gunstar Green
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Re: Together Retro: Sonic & Knuckles

Post by Gunstar Green »

noiseredux wrote:Howlongtobeat puts s&k at 3 hrs and s3&k at 4 and a half on average.
And they have Sonic 3 on its own at 2.5 hours average, creating a time paradox.

I do think those are fairly close though with S&K at 3 hours and the whole shebang at 4.5, putting Sonic 3 on it's own at 1.5. It's just really weak on its own.
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Re: Together Retro: Sonic & Knuckles

Post by ExedExes »

So I finally got to play it today on the Sonic Mega Collection, but I'm gonna admit I have not played a lot of Sonic to begin with. I've made it halfway through the first game and completed CD with all 7 Time Stones. Therefore you know what games in the series I happen to enjoy so far.

To be fair, I went through the first zone on the first Sonic game (experienced enough to know all the good stuff and can clear the first 2 Special Stages), Sonic 2 (only played around 5 times to be honest), and Sonic 3 (brand new to this one). I liked 1 & 2. 3 didn't feel all that right.

I know the story of how S&K was supposed to be Sonic 3 but they split it into 2 games, so then I tried Sonic 3.1, and I think the following 3 quotes from this thread sum it up best.
BoneSnapDeez wrote:The level design, controls, everything about it is just so off-putting. I feel like I'm playing a different game than everyone else.
Xeogred wrote:Sonic 1 and CD are very similar, and 3 and S&K are pretty much one big game so it their design is very similar. A bit more puzzle/platformer based, for better or worse. Sonic 1 and CD have more vertical/height in their levels which is cool to me.
noiseredux wrote:I think my issue is that Sonic 3/Knuckles stages feel more like mazes than linear platformer stages. Just is not fun to me. I get lost and annoyed instead of progressing.
I'll admit it, I didn't get through Act 2 of the first zone. Probably because the last checkpoint post I hit had me running into this spiked enemy with no rings to grab before that.

But what the heck happened to the series in Sonic 3? Being well seasoned with the first Sonic and Sonic CD (see Xeogred's quote), I thought the series (pre-Adventure) was all about the go. The sensation of speed, the tall levels, just seeing how you can clear a certain area with each time you play. This felt like a brick wall. I got stuck in a few spots, I fell out of what I thought was a Special Stage (it was actually a bonus stage), and what's the deal with these non-Eggman minibosses? Wow. I'll admit I wasn't expecting something totally different.

I may return to it, but I am very disappointed. Sorry S&K fans.
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Xeogred wrote:The obvious answer is that it's time for the Dreamcast 2.
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Re: Together Retro: Sonic & Knuckles

Post by flojocabron »

well this sucks for me.

Took a crack at S&K on my sega saturn.....

Only to find that I'm not as good as I used to be. :?

When I was a kid I played 1 and 2 religiously. Three Not so much on the count that I would always get caught on the stupid spinning platform of Carnival night zone.

I did beat S&K a long time ago, but this time I only made it to Coral Reef zone act 2.

I have played other sonics in the past but usually with emulators. And the game is as easy as replaying a save state.

When I was a kid I would purposely collect 200 rings and let the timer run out so I could play the levels over again and rack up the lives.

I havent had the need to do this anymore because of emulator save states.

Maybe I should have done this early on? Or maybe I'm just spoiled?

Early on, I didn't look for the huge rings. I just plowed through the level. I didn't collect any extra lives. I did manage to get two continues though.

Only to lose them in The desert level. I got stuck on the sloping sand slide. Brought back memories of past sonic games! The bad kind :x

Oh well. I'll have to try again in a few days.
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dogman91
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Re: Together Retro: Sonic & Knuckles

Post by dogman91 »

ExedExes wrote: But what the heck happened to the series in Sonic 3?
...it actually got some challenge and platforming versus "holding right on the D-pad and beat the level". There's plenty of speed sections too, I might add.

Also just as a PSA, the multiple routes in the levels lead to the same place. You don't really have to worry about exploring. I like it because it adds re-playability to the game, as you'll likely traverse a different part of the level on the next play-through.

The spinning platforms in Carnival Night are easy once you know what to do: when it's moving up, hold "Up" on the d-pad... when it's moving down, hold "Down".
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Re: Together Retro: Sonic & Knuckles

Post by flojocabron »

dogman91 wrote:The spinning platforms in Carnival Night are easy once you know what to do: when it's moving up, hold "Up" on the d-pad... when it's moving down, hold "Down".
If only I knew about that back in 1998, it would have made me so damn happy.
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Re: Together Retro: Sonic & Knuckles

Post by Gunstar Green »

Man, I need to not read Together Retro threads involving games I love in the future. :lol:
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Re: Together Retro: Sonic & Knuckles

Post by emwearz »

I traded in some doubles and picked up Sonic 3 (and Metal Head for the 32X :lol: )today, so I will be getting into S3&K tonight or tomorrow!
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