List: Best 30 Wii Games plus Ghost Squad (10 years from now)

[Exhuminator]

let's not question one another's credentials

Dude I consider you in the great elder god group, no question. I think we're the same age and have both been playing games longer than some of the other forum members have even been alive.

It's just I get a bit defensive of Colors. I didn't think Sega had it in them anymore to produce a game with as much joie de vivre as it exudes. Colors tingled bits of my heart that I hadn't felt tingle in a long time, and howabout dat OST!

Sonic Colors is not better than Super Mario Bros Wii. That may seem like an opinion but it's not - it is a demonstrable fact.

Well the Wii certainly has a diverse and debate worthy library indeed.

[dsheinem]

It's just I get a bit defensive of Colors. I didn't think Sega had it in them anymore to produce a game with as much joie de vivre as it exudes. Colors tingled bits of my heart that I hadn't felt tingle in a long time, and howabout dat OST!

I agree! Colors broke the Sonic Cycle!

Here's some other stuff I wrote about Colors on the forums, which I will spoil since we're probably derailing this thread now

Console-based Sonic games sucked hard from 1996-2010. That's a long time in the wilderness. The games got progressively worse, the "Sonic Universe" got entirely more juvenile and asinine, and the gameplay elements (music, level design, control, etc.) deteriorated more and more from one entry to the next. The 2006/2008 games are the absolute nadir.

Since 2010 (Sonic Colors), the series has been basically rebounding. Sonic Colors<Sonic 4.1<Sonic 4.2<Generations. All these games are decent and do well to return to the series' roots, fix control issues, emphasize the right speed/exploration mix, etc. I've enjoyed Sonic games for the past few years, even after having abandoned all hope at one point that I'd ever enjoy one again.

So the cycle is broken, but it was VERY true for a VERY long time.

It is also worth noting that the handheld games/spin-offs from the main series have always been exempt from this cycle...there's more quality to be found there, but even those releases have some inconsistency.

The Sonic Adventure games absolutely fall into the "screens provide hope of triumphant return" followed by "pictures of new and troubling things" followed by "massive disappointment". Sonic's first 3D game to provide a compelling 3D version of what the 2D games offered, in my mind, is inarguably Sonic Colors. Yes, as you said, everything before was a "semi-start" but they were also tremendously horrid.

I suggested before in this thread that (on consoles) the cycle lasted 1996-2010, and I stand by that assertion pretty firmly. Did various games along the way have redeeming/decent parts? Yes. Did any single game approach the overall quality that marked the series prior to 1996? Not even close. I'm not alone in this sentiment - basic research will show you that the qualitative impressions of most "regular gamers" posting about these games online at the time of their releases as well as the "professional" review scores for every game in the series during this period fall far below the scores that Sonic games prior to 1996 and since 2010 have received.

Also, earlier in this thread I agreed with you

http://racketboy.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 45#p949545

So I guess I don't care too much one way or another. But, now that you pushed me to consider it and the criteria for the list more, I have changed my mind about its place in this Top 25.

[ejamer]

Sonic Colors is not better than Super Mario Bros Wii. That may seem like an opinion but it's not - it is a demonstrable fact. If Sonic Colors makes the list but Super Mario Bros Wii doesn't, then I think a mistake has been made or we have lost sight of our goal.

Without any debate over the "demonstrable fact" comment, I think there is still wiggle room about your second point. Is the goal picking the best games (ie: our own personal Metacritic) or picking games that are unique and/or interesting on Wii and probably won't be fully replaced by improved ports/sequels elsewhere?

I'd argue for the inclusion of Sonic Colors over NSMB Wii just because I think Sonic Colors is more unique, and in 10 years time it will still be interesting to see what the game offered. In 10 years time I expect there to be multiple games in the NSMB series that feel the same as the Wii release but make incremental improvements - the Wii U version already counts as one.

[irixith]

Sonic Colors is not better than Super Mario Bros Wii. That may seem like an opinion but it's not - it is a demonstrable fact. If Sonic Colors makes the list but Super Mario Bros Wii doesn't, then I think a mistake has been made or we have lost sight of our goal.

Based on the criteria of the original post...

More examples: Super Mario Strikers Charged was a mess (imo) and was a downgrade from the GCN version - it wouldn't make this list. Mario Kart Wii was very good, but w/Mario Kart 8 being such an improvement, MK Wii wouldn't make my list either. (this is not to say they can't be on the list; this is to say if they are on my shelf in 10 years, I don't think i'd pick them up and play them over these other versions, so they don't meet my personal criteria for game selections).

New Super Mario Bros. U is a far better game than New Super Mario Bros, and we're talking 10 years from now, what's going to be on my shelf? New Super Mario Bros. U! (and New Super Luigi Bros. U for modifying the formula and elevating the game once more). New Super Mario Bros. deserves an honourable mention for what it brought to the table, but in picking only 25, it's not reasonable to make the cut given other games that are better than it. It's certainly in the top 50. I don't know that it's a demonstrable fact that NSMB is better than Sonic Colours (them's strong words), but Sonic Colours is unique to the Wii (the DS version is a different game) and an excellent fun title somewhat unlike a lot of what the Wii has to offer. dsheinem professes to like Sonic 4 better, and Sonic 4 is fun...but available on pretty much any platform you want to play it on. I don't think its experience is superior to Colours, but then, Colours offers a mix between 2D and 3D that mixes it up and keeps it interesting.

I generally dislike most Sonic games, so it's bizarre that I'm advocating for one.

[Flake]

If game iterations on more advanced consoles are a valid consideration, Sonic Colors is off the list for sure. Sonic Generations was far and beyond better than Sonic Colors and the platforms it is available for are more ubiquitous than the WiiU's install base which is the only place Mario Kart 8 is available.

I think we need to decide if we are looking at the Wii's library in isolation or not. If not, the entire list has been put together in an inconsistent manner.

[Exhuminator]

I think we need to decide if we are looking at the Wii's library in isolation or not.

I believe we should focus on Wii exclusives. Or at least, games that appeared first on the Wii even if they were ported later to other platforms. I especially think we should include Wii games that utilized its proprietary features to excellent effect.

Sonic Colors just goes on the list because it's goddamn awesome. Jesus told me that and you can't deny what Jesus says.

[Flake]

Sonic Colors just goes on the list because it's goddamn awesome. Jesus told me that and you can't deny what Jesus says.

But what criteria are we applying that doesn't show Super Mario Wii coming out ahead? Units sold? Ubiquity with the system? Critical success?

[Exhuminator]

But what criteria are we applying that doesn't show Super Mario Wii coming out ahead? Units sold? Ubiquity with the system? Critical success?

I'd say because Colors is a rather unique game if you take in all aspects. New Super Mario Bros. feels like the same thing regardless of what platform you play it on. I've played it on DS, 3DS, Wii, Wii U... it feels like the same game every time with just slightly better graphics with each iteration. Colors has elements to its gameplay not see in other Sonic games before it. For example the Wisp powers gave Sonic a bit of a Kirby feel with how it changed the gameplay depending on what power you had.

[Flake]

And New Super Mario Bros Wii allowed 4 player side scrolling for the first time.

[retrosportsgamer]

Narcissistic as it clearly is - I can't even own a new play control game. I've tried. The artwork is so horrid.

I just learned this recently but each of those covers is double-sided! There's a real cover that doesn't throw it in your face that it's a GCN game with motion controls on the other side.