Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3

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RackGaki
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Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3

Post by RackGaki »

In preparation for the upcoming release of Persona 4, I've prepared a simple review of it's predecessor in the series.

Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3
Released in the United States August 14, 2007 for the Playstation 2.
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Persona 3 is a hybrid of a relationship simulator and a dungeon crawler. It's an effort at taking the grind of an average jRPG and making it significant to the audience, primarily with NPC interactions. More on this later. Your character is a typical high school student in Japan, except for being charged with saving the world through supernatural powers from demonic creatures who only come out at night. Very few people share this ability, but conveniently, you all go to the same high school.

Every dungeon is randomly-generated, though battles do not occur randomly. There's still a world map and a battle screen. Enemies are represented through what appears to be a gooey blob, whose size and color indicate the relative strength of your foe.

If you engage an enemy on the world map first, you attack first, and vice versa.

The action is turn-based. You control your protagonist and give vague commands to your other three interchangeable party members, who are able to competently assist most of the time. There are occasional questionable or repetitive actions by your party members, though they learn from trial and error... until you have to restart a particularly difficulty battle - of which there are plenty.

The difficulty of the game lies in the enemy strengths and weaknesses. Other than old-school memorization of what works and what doesn't, you have to rely on a supporting NPC with psychic abilities to figure out their stats. This can take a few turns, and will leave you and your party struggling in the meantime. The turn based system gets more interesting when you discover that you can add turns if you attack an enemy's weak point, but only once per enemy. Using this method, you can conceivably have five turns in a row. The catch is that your enemies can also gain a turn by hitting your own weak point.

So, what's your weak point?

It's entirely governed by your Persona - physical manifestations of your protagonist that gives you your occult powers. You can collect a limited number of these evil Pokemon through discovery after battles. To maximize your collection, you need to fuse multiple Persona together between battles to create new iterations. You need to be conscience of each one's weaknesses and strengths to succeed. You are rewarded for choosing the right Persona, and punished for choosing poorly. The Shin Megami Tensei series seriously punishes sloppy strategy - a rarity in modern video games. The Persona series is considered the easiest, but it still requires that you save outside of the dungeons every chance you get. The game is not shy about instantly killing you - and I'm not even referring to the bosses.

Uninspired dungeons and reskinned enemies don't harm the game enough to counter great voice acting and an in-depth battle system, fortunately. Though, like with most games of the genre, you will tire of the repetitive victory salutes of your party.

The ultimate potential of your newly-fused Persona are linked to a whole different aspect of the game - the ordinary, teenage life of your protagonist.

In this portion of the game sandwiched in between dungeon crawling, you are tasked with maintaining academic, courageous, and charismatic attributes which are required to achieve social links with your school peers, be it male or female. Raising your attributes can involve passing tests, drinking coffee, or eating at a particular restaurant. The social links, in turn, add direct experience to corresponding types of Persona you may fuse. NPC's are consequently given more significance than most of this game's peers.

The social portion of the game plays out semi-randomly; there are periodic scripted events from plot points to pop quizzes, but what you do to advance remains up to you.

Herein lies what makes Persona 3 a unique experience; a setting you can relate to. The protagonist starts out a high school academic with a penchant for girls trying to make some friends and have some fun. The intended audience for this game most likely was or is something like this. That makes the jump from this setting to the dark, occult mysteries and half-baked science fiction far more palatable than most jRPGs could ever hope to achieve.

Persona 3 takes actual role-playing back to the forefront of Japanese role-playing video games; something that has been sorely lacking. The genre has always been somewhat limited by the 1's and 0's that were used to translate the table-top games pioneered by Gary Gygax, but the technological limitations have been waning for decades. Persona 3 goes a long way towards opening up the genre to malleable games with player input on how they want to get to the end of the story. The battle systems of jRPG's of the past and present have been packed between rigid stories with unimpressive side quests and minigames that don't immerse the audience. Persona 3 manages to challenge the limitations of the hardware it's confined to quite successfully.

There are jRPG's with more tactical battle systems (Magna Carta) and more epic stories (Final Fantasy VII), but few have succeeded at being this relatable.

Every fan of the genre should give this game a chance.
"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most."
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Mozgus
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Re: Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3

Post by Mozgus »

So I read the whole review, and I believe you only made one personal statement in that entire thing. You think the high school setting is easy to relate to. The rest of your review was more like a feature list. No real opinion on whether any of it is good or bad. This is what I was talking about in the other thread. People just cant seem to explain why they like P3 so much. Your last sentence begins to give a 2nd opinion, but just falls back to the first one.

Maybe I just don't like the game because my high school life was absolutely nothing like this. Or maybe I just don't want my games to offer situations I can relate to in the first place. Or maybe its the fact that this was the only hyped up jRPG for the PS2 all year, a system which is known for tons of jRPGs, and that's why people are inhumanly grateful for it. Kind of like Tales of Symphonia. Gamecube owners wanted RPGs bad, and they didn't mind getting the weakest Tales game ever. In fact, they loved the shit out of it.
RackGaki
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Re: Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3

Post by RackGaki »

Thank you for the constructive criticism.

I could say bluntly what I liked and dislike with a simple score here and there, but an arbitrary number means nothing without an accurate benchmark, something that IGN, 1Up, and Gamespot have never discovered. I could also compress the information more thoroughly, but then I wouldn't have described my favorite technical aspects of the game.

Specifically yet indirectly, I pointed out that the battle system is more complicated than anything I've ever played on an NES or SNES jRPG. I couldn't build off of your dislike of the music or the graphics, because it's an inconsequential opinion to my experience. That left me with battle mechanics.

Ideally, though, I should be blunt. My favorite reviewers and Yahtzee, Gabe and Tycho.

None of whom score any game or hold back prejudice.
"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most."
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TonySoprano314
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Re: Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3

Post by TonySoprano314 »

While this is my first Racketboy forum post, I have read topics on this website and used it's information to make several decisions on games in the past. I have respected the views and opinions of this forum more so than any other website. Just last night I was reading a post by Mozgus on another thread about the inadequacies of Persona 3. While I whole heartedly agree with the topic creator, I have to disagree with almost everything I have read from Mozgus. Not only that, but to say that Persona 3 is the comparable to Tales of Symphonia, and then to say that Symphonia is the worst in the Tales series not only lacks reason, but any credibility. Why do I feel so strongly about Persona 3 and Tales of Symphonia? It just so happens I have finished both of those games in the past 3 months. I used to feel the same as Mozgus. I thought Persona was just another title that was popular to like. A friend of mine bought the game very cheap and quickly became almost obsessed with the title. He finished the game he forced me to play the first 10 hours. After that I was hooked. There is something about Persona 3 that is almost impossible to explain until you play the game. The battle system itself is more intuitive than almost any RPG I had ever played before. Little things like persona creation, timing, music, movement, dialog, voice-acting, mood, and just overall game play seems like they were designed with just enough depth to keep hardcore gamers happy, but also with enough approachability to keep newer JRPG fans involved. The only thing that I could possibly say negatively about the game is that Tartarus does occasionally get boring. Yes, everyone has their opinions on games, but in regards to Persona 3 I think so people just might feel as though they are above something without giving it a fair chance. I was once one of those people.
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Re: Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3

Post by Ack »

TonySoprano314 wrote:While this is my first Racketboy forum post, I have read topics on this website and used it's information to make several decisions on games in the past. I have respected the views and opinions of this forum more so than any other website. Just last night I was reading a post by Mozgus on another thread about the inadequacies of Persona 3. While I whole heartedly agree with the topic creator, I have to disagree with almost everything I have read from Mozgus. Not only that, but to say that Persona 3 is the comparable to Tales of Symphonia, and then to say that Symphonia is the worst in the Tales series not only lacks reason, but any credibility. Why do I feel so strongly about Persona 3 and Tales of Symphonia? It just so happens I have finished both of those games in the past 3 months. I used to feel the same as Mozgus. I thought Persona was just another title that was popular to like. A friend of mine bought the game very cheap and quickly became almost obsessed with the title. He finished the game he forced me to play the first 10 hours. After that I was hooked. There is something about Persona 3 that is almost impossible to explain until you play the game. The battle system itself is more intuitive than almost any RPG I had ever played before. Little things like persona creation, timing, music, movement, dialog, voice-acting, mood, and just overall game play seems like they were designed with just enough depth to keep hardcore gamers happy, but also with enough approachability to keep newer JRPG fans involved. The only thing that I could possibly say negatively about the game is that Tartarus does occasionally get boring. Yes, everyone has their opinions on games, but in regards to Persona 3 I think so people just might feel as though they are above something without giving it a fair chance. I was once one of those people.
Hmm...first post is a block paragraph aimed at Mozgus...

I'll allow it. Play ball.
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Re: Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3

Post by Mozgus »

TonySoprano314 wrote:While this is my first Racketboy forum post, I have read topics on this website and used it's information to make several decisions on games in the past. I have respected the views and opinions of this forum more so than any other website. Just last night I was reading a post by Mozgus on another thread about the inadequacies of Persona 3. While I whole heartedly agree with the topic creator, I have to disagree with almost everything I have read from Mozgus. Not only that, but to say that Persona 3 is the comparable to Tales of Symphonia, and then to say that Symphonia is the worst in the Tales series not only lacks reason, but any credibility. Why do I feel so strongly about Persona 3 and Tales of Symphonia? It just so happens I have finished both of those games in the past 3 months. I used to feel the same as Mozgus. I thought Persona was just another title that was popular to like. A friend of mine bought the game very cheap and quickly became almost obsessed with the title. He finished the game he forced me to play the first 10 hours. After that I was hooked. There is something about Persona 3 that is almost impossible to explain until you play the game. The battle system itself is more intuitive than almost any RPG I had ever played before. Little things like persona creation, timing, music, movement, dialog, voice-acting, mood, and just overall game play seems like they were designed with just enough depth to keep hardcore gamers happy, but also with enough approachability to keep newer JRPG fans involved. The only thing that I could possibly say negatively about the game is that Tartarus does occasionally get boring. Yes, everyone has their opinions on games, but in regards to Persona 3 I think so people just might feel as though they are above something without giving it a fair chance. I was once one of those people.
Your arguments fail because you assume I didn't "give these games a fair chance". You just specifically said you got hooked within the first 10 hours of P3. Guess what? I played 13 of that game. There's a clip I recorded of the game on my Youtube that proves this. Now what are you going to claim I did wrong?

And I have every right to call Symphonia the worst, because I was a huge Tales fan, and played all the prior titles. Symphonia had none of the magic. It was dry, uninspired, typical jRPG fare. They took absolutely no risks with that game. The music was the most forgettable too.

That's my "credibility". It's the same credibility everyone else has. It's the most credibility you CAN have. Buying a game, and playing a game, gives you maximum credibility on your opinion of it. The only step up would be if you developed the game, but at that point bias would cancel out the credibility.
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Re: Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3

Post by the7k »

I don't think Persona 3/Tales of Symphonia is a fair comparison. While I wouldn't say ToS is crap, it's just far too generic. Persona 3, on the other hand, oozes uniqueness.

It's an RPG that doesn't take place in some fantasy novel-inspired European landscape, and that's a plus for me. I actually care and feel for many of the characters, even NPCs, and that's a pretty big deal. The format of the game allows you to dungeon crawl and life sim it up, and take whatever balance that suits you. Most importantly, it's a game that can be enjoyed for as long or as short as you want.

If you just wanna kill a few monsters or social links for 15 minutes, you can do that. If you wanna go through a few months and a few levels of the dungeon for hours on end, you can do that too. I hate playing games that require a huge commitment of time, thus I enjoyed this game. I also hate having to grind for HOURS upon hours, and this game had very little of that. If a boss obliterates you, it's probably because you choose the wrong party members/persona, not because you need to go level up for 2-3 levels. (Lookin' at you, Dragon Quest)

Speaking of enemies, I like that status related attacks are actually friggin' useful. I hate how in so many RPGs, you get charm, death, confusion, etc. and NEVER USE THEM because ALL ENEMIES ARE IMMUNE. Bullcrap. Status-attacks in P3 aren't overpowered, but they are just useful enough to be used every now and again. Also, I love that you can't win battles by pushing "X" over and over again; you actually need to exploit weaknesses. I can't tell you how many RPGs I've played that boil down to "X,X,X,X,X,...", and it's boring as hell.

I also love the music, which so many seemed to hate. Sorry it couldn't be yet another done-to-death Final Fantasy rip-off soundtrack, but I'm glad it went in a different direction.

The only con for this game in my opinion is the difficulty. It's way too easy; luckily, this was corrected with P3FES's Hard mode. Also, the story isn't exactly original (Good ol' Apocalypse), but the characters are developed enough that I can overlook that.
Edit: Oh yeah, I forgot I also disliked many of the voices. Some were good, but there were a few that made me cringe, usually by sounding 20-40 years older than the characters they represent. The Japanese voices, on the other hand, are actually pretty good.

Just to let you know, this is the first RPG I've completed in A LONG TIME. The last RPG I remember completing is Chrono Trigger. (Note, I'm not including Tactical RPGs, which I often play the hell out of) While I've played ToS, Tales of Destiny, Tales of the Abyss, Final Fantasy VII-X, Star Ocean 2 & 3, etc. I always stop before I finish because I just get bored as hell. I can call the story from miles away, and the battles become nothing but "X" spamming. Just like CT, I've played through P3 multiple times; While I may have played through CT at least 20, I'm on play-through #5 of P3.
Edit: Oh wait, I forgot that I played through Suikoden and Breath of Fire III, which came after CT. Still, those RPGs were pretty early in the PS1's lifespan.
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Re: Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3

Post by arkanoid »

In all my years of gameplaying, I have literally _never_ played an RPG - ever. For some reason I have never been attracted to them.

Anyway, I recently decided to force myself to give one a try - so I have purchased Persona 3. I guess mainly because of all the hype.

I'm really not sure if Persona is an "ideal" representation of the genre, but my experience with the game will probably decide whether I ever pick-up an RPG again as it was already a struggle to take the first step.

I've got to say, I've only played it for about 2 - 3 hrs so far, but my initial impression is that it's just "silly". I mean, all this "building relationships" and "social" interaction stuff is just weird to me. It wouldn't be so bad if the storyline and characters had some depth to them but the interactions are almost on a kindergarten level.

hmmm, I dunno. I'm determined to stick with it though, I would really like to see what the big deal is when it comes to RPGs - I'm just not seeing it right now. :|
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