Hardest Shmup?

[Spyke]

Like I mentioned, I do think there are different kinds of hardness. OO-er... better change that to "different kinds of difficulty" I think!

I like games that are difficult but which you can feel you can progress in. For me, that's the Raiden series, the Psikyo games and some of the Cave games.

Konami's Gradius games are sort of at the limit of that for me, and Gradius V is one that I know I will never ever progress to the end in, which is sad because it's such a beautiful game.

I've only played Darius II in the Darius range, and although it's hard, I definitely feel the 1cc is within my grasp.

Of course it's not a fair comparison because different players will have different approaches and preferences. I think ANY shmup starts off being hard until the player "clicks" with the game and masters its own particular nuances and tricks.

It's not good news that Saidaioujou is an ass-kicker though, as I'm waiting for that to arrive in the mail. But then if there were no challenges, there'd be no satisfaction in winning!

Ant

[prfsnl_gmr]

All of them...

I concur! I have a hard time with the genre, but have really tried to give it a shot.

I was not very good at them either, and I still pale in comparison to most members of this forum. The game that really got me back into the genre, however, was The Red Star (PS2). It is a beat-em-up/overhead shooter with several "bullet hell" sections. (It is a very unique game...) I really, really enjoyed the "bullet hell" sections, and that led me to try out some more modern shmups - which I also enjoyed.

What I am trying to say it...The Red Star (PS2) is a really awesome game that: (1) is a great introduction to some modern shmup mechanics; and (2) is still fun for people who are not necessarily fans of the shmup genre.

On topic...

I had to resort to save states to get through Blazing Lazers (TG16). My inability to memorize the enemies patterns and the extremely fast moving projectiles at the end of the game - combined with my impatience - did me in.

On the other hand, I have never understood why some people consider Axelay (SNES) to be a difficult game. I could get through it fairly easily as a teenager, and it still does not pose much of a challenge. I guess it just clicks with me...

But then if there were no challenges, there'd be no satisfaction in winning!

I agree completely, and I think that this is why I have more of a tolerance for very difficult games now.

[pierrot]

Ibara with one credit is unrelenting. I think it's harder than Battle Garregga, and Pink Sweets is probably tougher than both of them. (I still think Ibara takes the cake, though.)

Sengoku Ace is stupid difficult. A lot of Psikyo shooters are also, but Sengoku Ace in particular feels unmanageable pretty quickly.

[noiseredux]

Ibara is really really hard. Yeah. To me, prob the hardest CAVE vertical shmup I've played. I have Pink Sweets, but haven't given it a try yet.

I think DDP Res (mentioned earlier in the thread) is one of the more approachable recent CAVE games. Easier than SDOJ for sure.

I personally find Radiant Silvergun really tough, though that could be cuz I don't seem to like it enough to really learn how to play it well.

Psykio games are rough, but usually because of rank. I suppose you can say that forcing yourself to keep the rank down makes them a bit easier.

For me personally, I've always been pretty bad at old school horizontal shmups. Gradius (especially IV) and R-Type (especially Delta) and crap like that is really difficult for me to do well at.

[BoneSnapDeez]

Super R-Type

[ZenErik]

Ibara is really really hard. Yeah. To me, prob the hardest CAVE vertical shmup I've played. I have Pink Sweets, but haven't given it a try yet.

I think DDP Res (mentioned earlier in the thread) is one of the more approachable recent CAVE games. Easier than SDOJ for sure.

I personally find Radiant Silvergun really tough, though that could be cuz I don't seem to like it enough to really learn how to play it well.

Psykio games are rough, but usually because of rank. I suppose you can say that forcing yourself to keep the rank down makes them a bit easier.

For me personally, I've always been pretty bad at old school horizontal shmups. Gradius (especially IV) and R-Type (especially Delta) and crap like that is really difficult for me to do well at.

I'd probably put SDOJ and Ibara as the top two hardest CAVE shmups. At least for me. They're pretty much the only two where I can at least sometimes die 3 times in the first stage.. It's sad, really.

But I'm sure better shmuppers may have other opinions.

[mjmjr25]

Spyke, i'm surprised to see you say Dragon Blaze - I found that difficult, but certainly clearable with more time, and I don't clear many hard shmups. I don't think that would make my top 25 difficult shmups.

Sorcer Striker has insane bosses beyond stage 3 and it has I think 7 stages, really tough game.

Ibara and Pink Sweets are both brutal - like can't get to stage 4 brutal. I'd have to say Ibara if I said just one though.

Dragon Saber, Image Fight, and Truxton are really hard for old-school shooters. If Gradius III and V are hard, do not try to clear Image Fight. One power down (ie, die once, past stage 3) and yr done and it isn't fun.

[Spyke]

Spyke, i'm surprised to see you say Dragon Blaze - I found that difficult, but certainly clearable with more time, and I don't clear many hard shmups. I don't think that would make my top 25 difficult shmups.

Sorcer Striker has insane bosses beyond stage 3 and it has I think 7 stages, really tough game.

Ibara and Pink Sweets are both brutal - like can't get to stage 4 brutal. I'd have to say Ibara if I said just one though.

Dragon Saber, Image Fight, and Truxton are really hard for old-school shooters. If Gradius III and V are hard, do not try to clear Image Fight. One power down (ie, die once, past stage 3) and yr done and it isn't fun.

Yeah I just couldn't get Dragon Blaze at all. The more I played it I realised I was not making any progress at all. I did credit feed it through to the end, but was just so put off by the later stages, and the fact I knew I'd never get that far "naturally" that I sold it on and don't miss it at all!

Funny, it was online footage of Ibara that spurred me to ask the question. I'd heard its reputation as a hard shooter, but I do like the style and presentation of it (don't own it yet). It looks to me like an old-skool shooter in a modern set of clothes, with a hardcore difficulty level?

I'm still having trouble with Espgaluda too though. I can clear level three ok with no losses, but it gets hard for me after that. I wonder if some games are harder because of the time that you have to spend concentrating to get through them. Perhaps it can be a matter of mental stamina rather than actual difficulty?

Ant

[ninjainspandex]

How about Gaieres on the Genesis, that game is just brutal. Amazing music though.

[pierrot]

Dragon Saber, Image Fight, and Truxton are really hard for old-school shooters. If Gradius III and V are hard, do not try to clear Image Fight. One power down (ie, die once, past stage 3) and yr done and it isn't fun.

I totally forgot about Image Fight. That game is straight insanity. I don't think I've made it past the first level, and I usually die once three of the larger ships show up. Memory is a little foggy on it, but I remember playing it for about 20-30 minutes, and not even seeing a boss.

Gradius III is also ridiculous. The original Gradius is my one and only 1cc, but I can't make it past the first corridor (with those fucking sand lion, bastards) in the arcade version of III. I remember III being a staple of most of the arcades I ever went to in Japan, too. Not the original. Just II and III. Damn Japanese. >_>

Funny, it was online footage of Ibara that spurred me to ask the question. I'd heard its reputation as a hard shooter, but I do like the style and presentation of it (don't own it yet). It looks to me like an old-skool shooter in a modern set of clothes, with a hardcore difficulty level?

I love Ibara. It's one of my favorite shooters, but playing for score is one of the most trying experiences in shmupping, for me. I would easily take playing Ibara for score over playing Image Fight or Gradius III at all, though.