Solving sexism in games: Fat/ugly human female characters

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Should there be more ugly female characters and fewer attractive female chracters in video games?

Yes there should be
9
28%
No there shouldn't be
16
50%
Undecided
7
22%
 
Total votes: 32

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Erik_Twice
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Re: Solving sexism in games: Fat/ugly human female character

Post by Erik_Twice »

dsheinem wrote:no, you are censuring it.
They are different words with a similar meaning.


cen·sure [sen-sher] Show IPA noun, verb, cen·sured, cen·sur·ing.
noun
1.
strong or vehement expression of disapproval: The newspapers were unanimous in their censure of the tax proposal.

cen·sor [sen-ser] Show IPA
noun

2.
any person who supervises the manners or morality of others.
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AppleQueso

Re: Solving sexism in games: Fat/ugly human female character

Post by AppleQueso »

General_Norris wrote:
dsheinem wrote:no, you are censuring it.
They are different words with a similar meaning.


cen·sure [sen-sher] Show IPA noun, verb, cen·sured, cen·sur·ing.
noun
1.
strong or vehement expression of disapproval: The newspapers were unanimous in their censure of the tax proposal.

cen·sor [sen-ser] Show IPA
noun

2.
any person who supervises the manners or morality of others.
You're comparing "censure" as a verb with "censor" as a noun.
AppleQueso

Re: Solving sexism in games: Fat/ugly human female character

Post by AppleQueso »

Gunstar Green wrote:
dsheinem wrote:What's been forced? Consciousness raising is not censorship.
You're right. Forced isn't the word I should have used since no one is forcing creators to do anything.

I do agree about the frequency being an issue, to a point considering there is still the question of demographics and who a specific game is being made for, and that's why I don't really get why layering implications onto particular tropes does much to raise awareness.

Showing me dozens of women who need rescue next to one strong heroine is a more compelling argument to me than hammering on about why Peach is the bane of all women. I'm not trying to take anything away from that point. My issue is with the people who have an issue with the content of fiction and not with the people who are taking notice of specific trends.
Things don't exist in a vacuum, and I suspect that individuals who take issue with individual content will, when pressed, admit that the problem largely comes from where it resides in a larger societal context. Let's face it, if Princess Peach was the only female character in history to have ever been kidnapped and needed rescuing, and sexism was in no way a problem in society as a whole, nobody would make a fuss about it.

As for the stuff about demographics, I think it's worth noting that I think there are a lot more women into video games than most people realize.
Another question I have rolling around in my head is what makes a strong woman and what makes a good female role model?

For instance, I've seen Sarkeesian argue outside of her "Tropes vs. Women" series that a strong female character is not necessarily feminist because a female character using violence to solve problems is displaying male traits.

While I have to strongly disagree with that, at the same time she has a point about video game violence and in that sense, which male characters are good role models?
I know this is probably a bit of a cop-out, but video games are also known for having terrible writing standards in general and that's an issue in its own right. :P

I'd say anything that makes a good, interesting character period probably applies to a good female character.
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Erik_Twice
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Re: Solving sexism in games: Fat/ugly human female character

Post by Erik_Twice »

AppleQueso wrote:You're comparing "censure" as a verb with "censor" as a noun.
Setting aside that "censure" is also a noun and the noun is the one that fits the definition quoted, the idea was to note that censorship applies to any moral reprobation.

Dsheinem thought I confused the words because they are similar, which I didn't.
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Jmustang1968
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Re: Solving sexism in games: Fat/ugly human female character

Post by Jmustang1968 »

Well dave and I had a nice discussion about this in our upcoming podcast.

I talked to my wife a bit about this before the show. She is a gamer and I asked her opinions on portrayal of women and cited some examples.

Her response to Princess Peach or damsel in distress: for some women that is a fantasy. Kind of like the white knight or prince charming rescuing the princess and women and being brave for her and risking life etc is a fantasy. Not necessarily a bad one or damaging to women.

She also likes sexy woman characters. She makes her avatars in MMOs and other games as what she thinks are attractive and sexy. She wants her characters to 'kick ass and be hot'. She sees games as a fantasy and her avatar personifies the hero she would want to look like if she was one. She says it is just how guys want to be good looking and muscle bound heroes in games and not have beer guts and plumbers cracks.

So just because a vocal group takes issue with woman portrayal, others embrace or like how they are portrayed.

Now this doesn't address how women are treated as a professional in the industry...
dsheinem
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Re: Solving sexism in games: Fat/ugly human female character

Post by dsheinem »

General_Norris wrote:
AppleQueso wrote:You're comparing "censure" as a verb with "censor" as a noun.
Setting aside that "censure" is also a noun and the noun is the one that fits the definition quoted, the idea was to note that censorship applies to any moral reprobation.

Dsheinem thought I confused the words because they are similar, which I didn't.
No people misuse "censorship" all the time. Censorship is ACTUALLY deleting, removing, covering up, bleeping, etc. Wal-Mart rap albums are CENSORED. Some forums have mods that frequently REMOVE or EDIT stupid or offensive comments. That's censorship.

Censuring is what you say when you don't like something to explain why and SUGGEST a change. This is a forum (with a moderating team) that has a community which largely CENSURES disagreeable posts.
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Jmustang1968
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Re: Solving sexism in games: Fat/ugly human female character

Post by Jmustang1968 »

Mods need to censor the dictonary arguments.
Last edited by Jmustang1968 on Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
dsheinem
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Re: Solving sexism in games: Fat/ugly human female character

Post by dsheinem »

Jmustang1968 wrote:Mods need to censor th dictonary arguments.
^ good example of censurship
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Erik_Twice
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Re: Solving sexism in games: Fat/ugly human female character

Post by Erik_Twice »

If you want to argue against the dictionary, be my guest.
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AppleQueso

Re: Solving sexism in games: Fat/ugly human female character

Post by AppleQueso »

This is a good thread derail.
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