Solving sexism in games: Fat/ugly human female characters

[AppleQueso]

Yeah fuck it I've got nothin

If you don't know where to begin to address the subject, I'll give you a little assignment instead:

Can you think of any major (not disposable sub-characters) human female video game characters who are fat, ugly, old or a combination of all three?

I'm very well aware of the subject, but I'm getting the feeling that you've only recently been introduced to this whole idea.

I really don't mean any offense, but your proposed solution to the problem comes across as a bit... naive.

2) Why is the bulk of complaining about sexism in video games coming from women and not men?

Probably because most games are just male power fantasy and men only complain about "sexist" portrayals as a direct response to women making similar complaints or observations.

[GodofHardcore]

Yeah fuck it I've got nothin

If you don't know where to begin to address the subject, I'll give you a little assignment instead:

Can you think of any major (not disposable sub-characters) human female video game characters who are fat, ugly, old or a combination of all three?

I'm very well aware of the subject, but I'm getting the feeling that you've only recently been introduced to this whole idea.

That's right. It was thanks to Anita Sarkeesian's "Women vs Tropes" videos that brought attention to me about sexism in video games.

I really don't mean any offense, but your proposed solution to the problem comes across as a bit... naive.

Well in my first post, I outlined how my solution (more fat/old/ugly female characters) can eliminate the tropes Anita complains about.

Assuming money is nothing, Is there a better solution you know of?

Probably because most games are just male power fantasy and men only complain about "sexist" portrayals as a direct response to women making similar complaints or observations.

I guess that proves my point (to Damm64) that there are attractive and ugly male main characters which is why men don't complain about sexism. And as you pointed out, men only complain about sexism against men as a defense mechanis, against women complaining about sexism against men. Men are only complaining about sexism to spite feminists. That's why we should be focusing on more ugly female characters.

Women still complain about sexism because there are only attractive female main characters which leads to my solution: more ugly female main characters.

[Gamerforlife]

Where's the option for, "there should be an equal number of each"

That's what I hate with sexism arguments. It's always less of this, less of that. I don't support that. I say just get more of whatever the other thing is so that everyone can be happy. Not everyone is offended by sexy women in video games. Getting ridding of them is just going to piss off some gamers. Better to instead just get more of smart, capable women who aren't just sex symbols. Getting rid of all attractive females just creates another form of sexism. You're just forcing all women in that entertainment medium into a new stereotype. One that says ladies in games must all be unattractive. One extreme isn't better than the other. Personally, I enjoy sexually exploitative games just as much as I do games with intelligent, capable, strong women whose sexuality isn't focused on at all. Can't we have both?

Look at our culture. At one point in history being an overweight women was considered attractive. It was a sign of wealth, because anyone eating a lot had lots of money. Fast forward many years later and we got a culture encouraging women to starve themselves because that became the new norm for what's considered attractive. Isn't it better to be in a culture where being slim or big is considered okay?

[Damm64]

Do the Gears of Wars cast count as ugly characters? Then again, some people (both men and women) may consider them attractive (because they have big muscles like grizzly bears). The Gears of Wars guys might not be skinny metrosexuals but it could be argued that they're attractive despite or because of their looks.

How about Metal Gear Solid 4? If you saw Snake on the street, you'd think he was just some lonely senior citizen. And yet here he is, a main character of his own game. An old guy. When's the last time there was an old female character?

The general idea of a old main character is something that is almost never used, how many old characters are in videogames? When they appear they are some random wizard or something like that.



If were gonna talk about "i think this character looks ugly" then almost every character can be considered "ugly"



I never liked the aspect of Yuna in FF X... i don't know i just don't like it.

Whether your statement is correct depends on whether you think the Gears or Wars guys/Old Snake are ugly or not.

Then we have to consider if everyone considers the female characters atractive.

A couple of questions:

1) What is the big picture?

2) Why is the bulk of complaining about sexism in video games coming from women and not men?

1) Nobody wants to put reality into a videogame, we play them to have fun, to do stuffs out of ordinay, to enjoy the narrative, to enjoy the fantastic visuals that come from the mind of a person. Videogames do not represente a way of thinking.

2) To me, only the feminist complain about sexism in videogames, i can see the major trend of the male saving the princess but i do not think is a way to make the women weak i look at it as a weak plot line and maybe i enjoy the gameplay. I have nothing agains feminism of the women in general, but there are extremist out there were everything to them is insulting in a way.

[AppleQueso]

I really don't mean any offense, but your proposed solution to the problem comes across as a bit... naive.

Well in my first post, I outlined how my solution (more fat/old/ugly female characters) can eliminate the tropes Anita complains about.

Assuming money is nothing, Is there a better solution you know of?

It's honestly a very small part of a much bigger overall societal issue. It's not something you can just be like "Hey we'll do X, that'll solve everything."

Simply working on increasing awareness and trying to change attitudes and perceptions is the best way of approaching it I think.

[ZenErik]

As long as Japan still gives me games with moe blobs like the Atelier series I am fine with whatever. Make women not always damsels in distress. Sure. I like how capable Ellie became in TLoU. She developed well throughout the game. That's really the extent of my input for mainstream 'blockbuster' games as I don't play many. Elizabeth from Bioshock Infinite sort of starts off a damsel in distress.. to some extent. She wasn't begging for help or anything. But I do feel like she will also grow nicely whenever I get around to playing more of that game.

[Gamerforlife]

If were gonna talk about "i think this character looks ugly" then almost every character can be considered "ugly"



I never liked the aspect of Yuna in FF X... i don't know i just don't like it.

I like the sweet, quite, nice girl Yuna in FF X. Not the completely out of character, gun toting, bimbo, pop princess character she was in FF X-2. Personality goes a long way towards making someone attractive or unattractive too, course it's all subjective

[GodofHardcore]

Where's the option for, "there should be an equal number of each"

How are you going to get an equal number of each in the first place? By increasing the number of ugly female characters and lowering the number of attractive ones.

If your goal is equal numbers of ugly and attractive females, then that necessitates increasing the number of uglies and lowering the number of good-lookers. So you would choose the first option.

That's what I hate with sexism arguments. It's always less of this, less of that. I don't support that.

See above.

I say just get more of whatever the other thing is so that everyone can be happy.

They say that you can please everyone some of the time but not all of the time. As long as there exists attractive females, feminists will continue complaining about it and males will continue masturbating to it.

Getting rid of all attractive females just creates another form of sexism. You're just forcing all women in that entertainment medium into a new stereotype. One that says ladies in games must all be unattractive. One extreme isn't better than the other. Personally, I enjoy sexually exploitative games just as much as I do games with intelligent women whose sexuality isn't focused on at all. Can't we have both?

I don't see how this is relevant to my thread though. Where did I say it has to be 100% attractive females or 100% ugly females? Unless you're talking about a hypothetical extremist?

Look at our culture. At one point in history being an overweight women was considered attractive. It was a sign of wealth, because anyone eating a lot had lots of money.

So what is the attractive thing here? The overweightedness or the money?

Fast forward many years later and we got a culture encouraging women to starve themselves because that became the new norm for what's considered attractive.

There is a contradiction however: the majority of America is overweight or obese. Obesity is still the norm. Or, obesity has always been the norm, but what is considered attractive has changed.

Isn't it better to be in a culture where being slim or big is considered okay?

Being slim (not anorexic) is objectively good. Big however, is subject to interpretation. How big are we talking about?

[flex wood]

Probably because most games are just male power fantasy and men only complain about "sexist" portrayals as a direct response to women making similar complaints or observations.

Please tell me you are joking with this comment.

This whole thing that women are over sexualized in video games is fucking stupid. All of it exists in every other form of media and was there a couple hundred years before video games. All these tropes, princesses needing rescued as an example, were around a hell of a lot longer then video games.

You think Romeo and Juliette would have gone over so well if Juliette was some kind of 300 pound beast with a hunchback, a lazy eye and had a leg amputated due to poor circulation? No?

[GodofHardcore]

The general idea of a old main character is something that is almost never used, how many old characters are in videogames? When they appear they are some random wizard or something like that.

I'm sure there's many more examples of old male main characters in video games, I just can't think of any at the moment. Definitely more than old female main characters though.

I never liked the aspect of Yuna in FF X... i don't know i just don't like it.

I know beauty is subjective but you couldn't have picked a worse example. Yes again, beauty is subjective but Yuna has nice hair, a nice slim body, nice legs, decent face and nice rack. There are plenty of hentai drawings of her which is proof of her attractiveness.

Then we have to consider if everyone considers the female characters atractive.

Actually my opinion is that society has very clear indications of what is or isn't an attractive female while it has unclear indications of what is or isn't an attractive male.

1) Nobody wants to put reality into a videogame, we play them to have fun, to do stuffs out of ordinay, to enjoy the narrative, to enjoy the fantastic visuals that come from the mind of a person. Videogames do not represente a way of thinking.

2) To me, only the feminist complain about sexism in videogames, i can see the major trend of the male saving the princess but i do not think is a way to make the women weak i look at it as a weak plot line and maybe i enjoy the gameplay. I have nothing agains feminism of the women in general, but there are extremist out there were everything to them is insulting in a way.

Okay, I accept that line of reasoning.