Poison's legacy: Newest God of War won't have female enemies

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threetoed
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Re: Poison's legacy: Newest God of War won't have female ene

Post by threetoed »

Gamerforlife wrote: The word uppity is not racist or sexist

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/uppity

Read a dictionary sometime. As far as my usage of it, I was referring to the air of arrogant, moral superiority people take by looking down on a game that depicts violence against women, when those same people don't seem to take issue with the violence that has always been depicted against men in this series. It's hypocrisy
Ah, yes, the old "read a dictionary sometime." I suggest you take your own advice, look up the word "connotation" then Google "connotation of uppity."

Also, show me one real article written by someone who objects to the violence against women in God of War, but thinks violence against men is ok. Don't bring your ridiculous strawmen up in here.

EDIT: Hahaha, this is too good. Google "God of War too violent" 41.5 Million hits. Google "God of War sexist" 350,000 hits. Yes, clearly the problem is not enough people objecting to God of War's violence.
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equalsign
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Re: Poison's legacy: Newest God of War won't have female ene

Post by equalsign »

Gamerforlife wrote: A game is a work of art, and the creators have the right to show whatever they want. That's what I meant by freedom of expression. If people don't like it, they should play something else. My original post was simply pointing out the strangeness of a franchise built on brutal, merciless, excessive violence suddenly wanting to reduce the violence. It sounds like they are feeling pressure from some source or another and are changing their way of doing things to cater to them. That's pretty much what selling out means. The moment you change the very essence of your franchise into something that completely contradicts it in order to make it appeal to more people and make more money, you are selling out.

As far as sexism goes, the idea that it's okay for the series to depict men being killed in various horrifying, cruel ways but not women, is EXACTLY what sexism is. In other words, I am NOT a sexist as I see no reason that female characters in the game should be treated any differently than male characters.
Art is typically not isolated; especially so with commercial art. There is meant to be a dialogue between the artist and the audience. If members of the audience got up and said "Hey. I liked your game, but not this one part," the artists have a choice of how to respond to that.

Here it's about some female gear scene (I think), but we could frame this argument around grinding, escort missions, first-person platforming, ect, ect. Voicing your complaints is appropriate. I don't think anyone's saying the artists don't have the right to do what they want with their game.

In that same sense, this is a new group of artists. They can do what they want with their game.

I personally don't think male characters should be depicted being killed in various horrifying, cruel ways either. I accepted long ago that the God of War franchise wasn't for me. I haven't been able to find a clip of the scene mentioned in the article, but they made it sound like there were some sexual undertones.

As I said before, when violence against women is paired with sexuality I find it extremely distasteful and inappropriate. Violent sexuality in video games almost exclusively targets women. Last I checked with the God of War series, it was not an exception. Violent sexuality in games is sexist, and to me it's wrong. Again, they should have the right to have that in their game if they want to, but I'm glad they won't this time.
Last edited by equalsign on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:49 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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equalsign
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Re: Poison's legacy: Newest God of War won't have female ene

Post by equalsign »

D.D.D. wrote: 1. The new developers aren't letting Kratos kill female baddies? Okay... Not that it matters but, at this time (the 6th game?) it's pointless. :roll:
2. Pussies? Whatever. Twas a joke that got taken the wrong way. Shocking that it happened in text on the internet.
3. Hasn't the series gone downhill anyways?
4. Uppity? Yes, denotative-wise it's not racist but the usage does typically tend to go on one or two types of people hence association with racism despite the meaning.
5. Anyhoo~
1. I haven't been able to find where they say this. I am genuinely curious if this is the case. That would be super weird. More info?

2. I think the "pussies" thing was a bad call as part of his argument because of the insult's obvious gender connotations.

3. Didn't the series start off downhill? Or was it a cliff?
( :lol: So bad.)

4. I didn't even know uppity was an insult. I thought it just meant "overly excited" or something.

5. Anyhoo~
Last edited by equalsign on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:40 pm, edited 7 times in total.
DinnerX
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Re: Poison's legacy: Newest God of War won't have female ene

Post by DinnerX »

threetoed wrote:Ah, yes, the old "read a dictionary sometime." I suggest you take your own advice, look up the word "connotation" then Google "connotation of uppity."
Seems be some confusion about whether or not uppity has a bad connotation. Some people don't think it does, other's aren't aware it might or think it doesn't.

If a connotation is obscure enough a sizable chunk of the populous isn't even aware of it, I don't think you can claim he intended it to mean anything more than arrogant, self-important, or pretentious. :?
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equalsign
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Re: Poison's legacy: Newest God of War won't have female ene

Post by equalsign »

Please let DinnerX have the last English/definition post :( .
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Re: Poison's legacy: Newest God of War won't have female ene

Post by DinnerX »

As a disclaimer: I have never played God of War and probably never will due to the content of the game. It just probably isn't something I'd enjoy.
Since this signature affects old posts, I'm leaving a message here in case anyone searches for my username. This account died in early 2013. I am no longer a fundamentalist.

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equalsign
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Re: Poison's legacy: Newest God of War won't have female ene

Post by equalsign »

DinnerX wrote:As a disclaimer: I have never played God of War and probably never will due to the content of the game. It just probably isn't something I'd enjoy.
Same here.
threetoed
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Re: Poison's legacy: Newest God of War won't have female ene

Post by threetoed »

DinnerX wrote:If a connotation is obscure enough a sizable chunk of the populous isn't even aware of it, I don't think you can claim he intended it to mean anything more than arrogant, self-important, or pretentious. :?
I would argue that the connotation is not obscure, however, even ceding that point, what he said is still sexist. If you accept that he meant arrogant, then he was saying that people who disagree with him are arrogant for having an opinion. And given his other comments in threads about women, he has lost the privilege of the benefit of the doubt.
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Re: Poison's legacy: Newest God of War won't have female ene

Post by DinnerX »

threetoed wrote:
DinnerX wrote:If a connotation is obscure enough a sizable chunk of the populous isn't even aware of it, I don't think you can claim he intended it to mean anything more than arrogant, self-important, or pretentious. :?
I would argue that the connotation is not obscure, however, even ceding that point, what he said is still sexist. If you accept that he meant arrogant, then he was saying that people who disagree with him are arrogant for having an opinion. And given his other comments in threads about women, he has lost the privilege of the benefit of the doubt.
Well, I don't know. It didn't come across that way to me. I just thought he was saying it's pretentious for a series full of violence to remove something like this. It's like a porno movie maker advertising they are now slightly less racy. It doesn't really mean much.
Since this signature affects old posts, I'm leaving a message here in case anyone searches for my username. This account died in early 2013. I am no longer a fundamentalist.

Don't add to my problems by pretending my past views are still held in the present. I do not have any patience for that. Feel free to ask me what I think now.
threetoed
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Re: Poison's legacy: Newest God of War won't have female ene

Post by threetoed »

DinnerX wrote:Well, I don't know. It didn't come across that way to me. I just thought he was saying it's pretentious for a series full of violence to remove something like this. It's like a porno movie maker advertising they are now slightly less racy. It doesn't really mean much.
You seem to be projecting what you think onto Gamerforlife. He doesn't think that it "really doesn't mean much." How do we know this? Because he says it:
Gamerforlife wrote: The moment you change the very essence of your franchise into something that completely contradicts it in order to make it appeal to more people and make more money, you are selling out.
He thinks that because he won't be able to watch a sexualized woman be crushed to death that the God of War franchise is ruined. Violence against women is not a part of the franchise; it is its essence. And it's not even clear that God of War is eliminating violence against women, it is "pulling back" whatever that means. Still, the very idea that scantly clad women won't be crushed to death in this version of God of War infuriates him.

He tries to smokescreen this sexism with a claim to artistic freedom, a concept which he clearly does not have a very strong grasp of. The developers claim, in the original article, that this action is not a statement, but a development of the character. But Gamerforlife knows the truth, they were pressured into this by outside forces. They were too morally inferior to stick to their values in the face of this criticism. And how can he show them just how morally inferior that they are? How weak and pathetic? Well he insults them, by equating them to female genitalia. Clearly, this equivalency only works if you believe that the people who have female genitalia are weak and inferior.

To be sure, being of the opinion that this step for the God of War franchise is like spitting in the ocean is a valid one, which you hold, DinnerX. But Gamerforlife does not. His views are sexist. It's not ok to stand up for them and, while we're posting forum rules, it's not ok to post them.
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