Nerds and Male Privilege

[Erik_Twice]

So the accusations of not “standing up for myself”, and the associated implication that what happened at that particular booth was somehow my fault, are both bemusing and frustrating for me.

I find it very harmful that she finds such an implication. She was being mistrated and she accepted that mistreatment instead of complaining. That's bad. Complaining won't make her less of a victim but it does attempt to fix the problem and does it better than an internet rant.

Telling the PR guy that she can play without any problem doesn't prevent her from writting about the experience later either. And even if it did, I think it's much better to actually try to stop the act than to make difuse comments on the internet.


I also find her defensiveness to be quite harmful. Really, she's telling the women that contacted her offering the opposite experience that they are liars or embarrassed or fighting sexism, that's very bad. Really, really, really bad. Seriously.


I agree with Ivo that the articles are pretty poorly written. I specially find very poor form going out of the way to talk about Hitman and it's trailer, that lends itself to getting lost in minutia and to weaken the issue at hand no matter how much you agree.

[Ivo]

A follow-up by the author: http://alivetinyworld.com/2012/06/20/st ... or-myself/

Thank you for posting this.

I don't know if this is just me being defensive (I would like opinions) but her writing increasingly puts me off. Is that me being sexist without knowing (genuine question)?
I read the introductory part of the post and didn't like it, maybe it is just not my style but it is not how I would start a follow up on this kind of topic at all.

I don't think she argued well enough on why she did not stand up for herself, cross-referencing the gaslighting article and basically concluding the she learned to shut up and write about it after.
But according to the original article she DID stand up to herself on what she apparently felt was minor compared to the "keyboard prying" incident. So at least I still don't understand what happened there.
I'm not saying she must put herself on the spot or then she has no right to write about it.
And then she closes that section with "retroactively standing up for myself to much greater effect". How can there be greater effect than stopping it from happening in the first place, instead of complaining about it retroactively? I wonder what Rosa Parks would feel about "retroactive greater effect". Like Norris mentions - this is not even mutually exclusively, she could stand up for herself right there AND write about it (and the other incidents).

I agree with her not naming and shaming the PR rep for many reasons (primarily that the particular PR rep wasn't necessarily being that sexist, I would not conclude that just from one account and particularly from her subjective account). I once again dislike her assumption that her not naming the guy is making people uncomfortable because people just want to find a scapegoat and be done with it.

I think she should also give more relevance to the fact that she was idling in the game when the incident happened. Flawed comparison but, is it sexist for a man to offer to open a jar for a woman when she appears to be struggling to open it, if the same man would offer to open a jar for ANYONE that appears to be struggling to open a jar? I don't think so.

Possibly the worst part of it is how she dismisses the accounts from those other females that say "I am a woman and this did not happen to me", although I guess it must be disturbing for her, her assertions are not reasonable.

I also don't know why she even mentioned that she was wearing a pink skirt in the original article, I think that sadly may have motivated some of the "blame the victim" mentality that she reportedly got.

In the end, she has the right idea: it is still a problem. But I don't think she had a good approach as a journalist.

Ivo.

[Flake]

A follow-up by the author: http://alivetinyworld.com/2012/06/20/st ... or-myself/

This follow up only makes me more certain that my assessment was correct. This author would better serve the interests of women seeking to gain respect and equal treatment by not writing anything about the subject at all.

[irixith]

She should have said something in the moment -- i.e. not allowing the keyboard to be pulled away, or at least pleasantly (but firmly) asserting her ability to play was not in question.

I once went to a Dave and Busters (they have somewhat of an arcade presense) because someone told me they had a House of the Dead 4 cab there, and I wanted nothing more than to have a go at it. I waited patiently behind the guys who were trying and failing in the first level, and put my dollar on the cab to signifiy I wanted to have a go when they were finished.

I am not the most attractive woman out there, so I get a bit of a double whammy of disbelief from the guys around the cab, and the sting of not being pretty enough to look at.

Eventually they let me up, and I calmly put one dollar in both the player 1 side and the player 2 side, picked up both guns, and began to play. (Nobody wanted to be player 2 to my player 1 of course.) After about 2 minutes I was completely unaware of anything around me. I was focused. How people were or were not treating me was immaterial, because I really, REALLY wanted to play the game.

I don't remember how long I stood there, but I beat the entire game controlling both guns on those two dollars in one marathon session.

When I finally put the guns down and realized what was going on around me, 3/4 of the entire place must have been gathered around the machine staring in stunned disbelief. I just quietly walked away and smiled, satisfied with the game and my achievement.

Nobody wanted to talk to me or congratulate me, and that stung. If I could have my time back, I wish that I would have said something clever or been able to join the crowd somehow, but I'm not sure I could do that now, let alone then. Maybe if I was prettier it would have been a cooler achievement -- hot AND beat the game in one sitting? Whoa.

Even today when I go to the local game store, the clerks don't even look at me or ask me if I need any help. I popped in to pick up Lego Batman 2, and a group of them were talking about Nintendo's E3 presentation. I tried to join in the conversation and all I got was silence.

I left, feeling awkward and alone in my hobby.

Do I wish I could change things and confront people about their blatant sexism? Sure. Do I really want to treated like even more of an outsider than I already am? No. How to explain that to people that are automatically accepted into the social group because of their sex? I have no clue.

[Flake]

How to explain that to people that are automatically accepted into the social group because of their sex? I have no clue.

You don't. You cannot simply explain to someone that they need to change. You have to show them they are wrong by doing what you want to do and doing it well.

I think you may have missed an opportunity when you walked away while those guys stood in stunned disbelief. Obviously this is based on your account but I think that had you engaged them in conversation then, you could possibly have made some fast friends.

[Erik_Twice]

You can beat HotD 4 with both guns? I get tired three stages in just from wiggling one gun with both hands, I can't imagine how two guns must feel like

Though speaking of experience, I don't think your sex or your physical attractiveness as much to do with the crowd thing. There are days when people shit their pants when they see some of us play DDR and other days you are burning the ground and moving like a hurricane and nobody ever says a thing. Hell, more often than not there's no crowd at all.

[irixith]

How to explain that to people that are automatically accepted into the social group because of their sex? I have no clue.

You don't. You cannot simply explain to someone that they need to change. You have to show them they are wrong by doing what you want to do and doing it well.

I think you may have missed an opportunity when you walked away while those guys stood in stunned disbelief. Obviously this is based on your account but I think that had you engaged them in conversation then, you could possibly have made some fast friends.

I meant how do I explain how it feels to a group of people that have never felt that before. It's not that I want to explain to them how to change, but how it feels to be judged, even on attributes that don't apply in order to even be able to participate, let alone journey towards some level of acceptance.

I absolutely missed the opportunity -- but I'm not one to force myself into a situation where I'm not wanted either. I understand where that article writer is coming from having experienced similar things, but also understand that shoulda woulda coulda is easier to say than do. I don't have any great answer on how to combat sexism, or whether or not it needs to be combatted at all. Insomuch as I love to play games like House of the Dead, my PC is filled with the Wedding Dash's and Diner Dash's of the world too.

[Flake]

I meant how do I explain how it feels to a group of people that have never felt that before. It's not that I want to explain to them how to change, but how it feels to be judged, even on attributes that don't apply in order to even be able to participate, let alone journey towards some level of acceptance.

Do you think there are any people in this world who have never been judged or excluded for arbitrary reasons? A guy might have a free pass in the world of video games but life and society are much larger than gaming. That same guy who looks at you funny when you school him House of the Dead might get the same treatment from you if he tries to participate in an activity that society does not feel is a 'guy' thing.

[irixith]

You can beat HotD 4 with both guns? I get tired three stages in just from wiggling one gun with both hands, I can't imagine how two guns must feel like

Though speaking of experience, I don't think your sex or your physical attractiveness as much to do with the crowd thing. There are days when people shit their pants when they see some of us play DDR and other days you are burning the ground and moving like a hurricane and nobody ever says a thing. Hell, more often than not there's no crowd at all.

It's my most treasured gaming achievement -- under that would be beating those 20 round arenas in Borderlands. I still can't believe I coughed up that much time to do something so trivial.

You're right, it probably doesn't have a whole lot to do with it -- but if wishes were horses, and all that. One wonders how the reception might have differed if one was more like the female portrayed in games and relegated to "booth babe" status. I guess I'm just thinking out loud that the experience for female gamers must differ widely still between those considered conventionally attractive and those that aren't.

[irixith]

I meant how do I explain how it feels to a group of people that have never felt that before. It's not that I want to explain to them how to change, but how it feels to be judged, even on attributes that don't apply in order to even be able to participate, let alone journey towards some level of acceptance.

Do you think there are any people in this world who have never been judged or excluded for arbitrary reasons? A guy might have a free pass in the world of video games but life and society are much larger than gaming. That same guy who looks at you funny when you school him House of the Dead might get the same treatment from you if he tries to participate in an activity that society does not feel is a 'guy' thing.

Right -- but this is where the discussion helps, isn't it? I don't have all the answers, just my experience. If I can explain how it feels on my side, and the guys can explain how it feels on theirs, that when progress can happen.