Do you feel bad about buying new(ish) releases used?

[o.pwuaioc]

If you want a civil discourse, please cut out your smarmy passive-aggressive retorts. That is just being an ass (I know its hard to to )

It is indeed hard not to be an ass when words are positions are butchered and twisted into something that the speaker never espoused.

How did you pass math? From 2011 to 2012 used game and used hardware sales were only a third of their profits.

Pretty sure that out of a total profit $2700 that $1200 is 45%, and that it is 26% more than the new sales of $950.[/quote]
That would indeed be my fault for skipping over the second chart. But still, 55% of their profits (non-used products), heck, 26% (new products) is still a significant chunk. Take away 25% of any company's profits and they're going to be pleased about it. That's why I said new and used both. Unless you want to argue that the majority of a company's profit isn't that important.

From the graphs, the real take away is why isn't selling new games profitable?

[Jmustang1968]

If you want a civil discourse, please cut out your smarmy passive-aggressive retorts. That is just being an ass (I know its hard to to )

It is indeed hard not to be an ass when words are positions are butchered and twisted into something that the speaker never espoused.

How did you pass math? From 2011 to 2012 used game and used hardware sales were only a third of their profits.

Pretty sure that out of a total profit $2700 that $1200 is 45%, and that it is 26% more than the new sales of $950.

That would indeed be my fault for skipping over the second chart. But still, 55% of their profits (non-used products), heck, 26% (new products) is still a significant chunk. Take away 25% of any company's profits and they're going to be pleased about it. That's why I said new and used both. Unless you want to argue that the majority of a company's profit isn't that important.

From the graphs, the real take away is why isn't selling new games profitable?[/quote]

The profit margin isn't high on new games. They make say $5 per new game and $20 per used game (not real, but something like that)

[o.pwuaioc]

The profit margin isn't high on new games. They make say $5 per new game and $20 per used game (not real, but something like that)

Right, but why was my question.

[Jmustang1968]

The profit margin isn't high on new games. They make say $5 per new game and $20 per used game (not real, but something like that)

Right, but why was my question.

Because people go and trade in their 2 week old games for $15 and then they resell them for $55?

And that when they buy in bulk,they get games from the distributor at like 50-52 a copy.

[Jungell]

I buy new if I can to support the developer of a game I like. If they see good sales, they are more likely to both stay in business and make more of the same type of games I like. What happens when this company makes this jrpg I like and it doesn't sell? There is a good chance they won't be making or bringing over another jrpg. I see preordering or buying new games I am anticipating as a way of 'voting' on games I like so companies will make more of those games. Plus I feel like I am supporting the guys who put forth the effort into making the game, and the money not all going to gamestop or some other reseller. I will buy used if my only option, but my preference is new when available

Of course. I buy the games that I just abso-fucking-lutely need to play, new. Like Gears. If I feel like I have the money, of course. Although I never buy used from a store, it's always from ebay or similar places. Game stores keep even used games over priced, for some reason.

I know what you mean and feel. But to me it seems a bit strange, as if you owe the developers anything. You don't. Most of my 360 games are "Classics", a handful is new and a handful are used. But my DS has a larger number of used games due to the fact that they are dropped so fast...

I love video games, so I buy them the smartest way for me.

[MrPopo]

New games are profitable. It's just that used games are obscenely more profitable. Gamestop is selling used games for a 100% markup in many cases (buy for $20, sell for $40). That's a bitchin margin.

As for why, the margin on new games is actually pretty good. Pulling from Amazon's Q2 2011 financial results (first one I found on google), sales were 9.91 billion, while profit was only 201 million, or 2%. Walmart's sales for Q4 fiscal 2012 was 122.3 billion, while profit was 5.2 billion, or 4%. Retail in general is not a high margin business.

[Jmustang1968]

Of course. I buy the games that I just abso-fucking-lutely need to play, new. Like Gears. If I feel like I have the money, of course. Although I never buy used from a store, it's always from ebay or similar places. Game stores keep even used games over priced, for some reason.

I know what you mean and feel. But to me it seems a bit strange, as if you owe the developers anything. You don't. Most of my 360 games are "Classics", a handful is new and a handful are used. But my DS has a larger number of used games due to the fact that they are dropped so fast...

I love video games, so I buy them the smartest way for me.

I didn't say I owe. I voluntarily support the developers. They put forth the work in makin g the game, I would rather most of my money go to them than a reseller. Sure, my one game purchase is small amount and insignifcant on its own, but I think of it like a vote like I said previously. I am not villifying used game sales, you do what you have to, I just refute that it doesn't hurt the industry much. If no one bought new games or enough of them, that developer would stop making games.

[isiolia]

Because the only time that the developer sees a cut of the sale is that first time. No matter what happens with that copy afterwards, it's one sale (for them) in a volume based industry.

Any company worth it's salt would care more about future sales than about immediate ones. That's why, as mentioned earlier, Microsoft took a loss when selling their Xbox, because they wanted to make up that money earlier. The used game market helps people buy more games, thus translating into more sales. It's a fallacy to assume that everyone who buys a used copy would otherwise buy a new one, likewise with piracy. I might download an expensive computer program that I would not in a thousand years want to buy. Is that a loss? If a company sees profit in future sales because of a used sale, the support is clear and there is no loss.

Say, for example, you're a game developer, and you need to sell 100,000 copies of your newly released game in order to break even.

You sell 50,000 units, and wind up declaring bankruptcy and shutting down. Yet you can see from XBL and PSN logins that 150,000 unique systems have played your game.

Future sales are fairly meaningless to you, because your company no longer exists. Technically, your game could have had 2/3 the actual playerbase it did and still kept you in business if all copies sold were new.
I'd doubt you'd consider the 100,000 people who played your game, and presumably paid someone for it, as "supporting" your company.

Obviously, it's over-simplified, but the key point is that there's a balance to strike. The grey-area, indirect support of the industry can swing either way in terms of new game sales, but if developer complaints (and the frequency of developer downsizing/shuttering) are an indication, there's more harm than good being done of late.

Other factors, IMO, are somewhat unrelated. MS took a loss on the 360 hardware because they make money with licensing, accessories, and so on. It's a typical strategy even outside of gaming.
The only company that doesn't usually do that is Nintendo, but AFAIK they started to with the 3DS when they did the price cut.

Piracy is a slightly different issue as well, since the mentality of "supporting" a developer is never there.

I am not villifying used game sales, you do what you have to, I just refute that it doesn't help the industry much.

Exactly. Well, I think refuting that it doesn't help much is not your intended meaning, but still

[o.pwuaioc]

Say, for example, you're a game developer, and you need to sell 100,000 copies of your newly released game in order to break even.

You sell 50,000 units, and wind up declaring bankruptcy and shutting down. Yet you can see from XBL and PSN logins that 150,000 unique systems have played your game.

This is nice and all in a vacuum, but ignores the reality of the video game market.

Obviously, it's over-simplified, but the key point is that there's a balance to strike. The grey-area, indirect support of the industry can swing either way in terms of new game sales, but if developer complaints (and the frequency of developer downsizing/shuttering) are an indication, there's more harm than good being done of late.

Every company will complain, but what company listens?

[Jmustang1968]

I am not villifying used game sales, you do what you have to, I just refute that it doesn't help the industry much.

Exactly. Well, I think refuting that it doesn't help much is not your intended meaning, but still

I fixed it. I am typing this all on my phone. When. Post gets too long it goes out of the range in the text box that I see, so it is hard for me to catch th typos sometimes, especially when quoting large posts.