Thoughts on innovation during the next console generation

[BoringSupreez]

PC gaming. Happily dying since 1995.

More like 1990.

I used to think PC gaming was dying, but that was right before I started playing Indie titles. I don't think that anymore. I do feel that PC gets far fewer exclusive non-MMO blockbusters, but it's made up for in other ways. PC is still the best way to play many games which also have console versions, such as Rage and Far Cry 2.

As for the original thought of the thread, games having no innovation anymore, I think that's not true. It's just that the innovative, unique titles are much less high profile than they used to be. Just as games have come to be more like movies, the game industry has become more like the film industry. You see a lot more hype for crap like Never Say Never than the gems like The Hurt Locker. Similarly, there is more hype for games like MW3 than Deus Ex: HR, or even more so, Ghost Trick. And even so, there are a few awesome games which manage to create a big buzz, like Batman: Arkham City. The industry is fine, it's just that finding the good stuff takes a little more effort than it used to.

[GameMasterGuy]

Yes, there will be innovation. Not the "better graphics, processes more" stuff we've been used to for seven generations, but "let's add more gimmicks". Touch screen gaming, motion control gaming, motion no-control gaming, voice controlled gaming, urine controlled gaming, who knows where we'll go next. Whether or not we like it doesn't matter, it's still considered innovation.

[Menegrothx]

Who are these "clinically retarded people" that you hate so much? What a bigoted prick you must be IRL.

Where did I say that I hate those people? If the game developers/publishers think its nessecary to have things like PRESS THE A BUTTON TO JUMP/OPEN THE DOOR at you all the time, then either they are seriously underestimating the intelligence of your average casual gamer, or those games were developed clinically retarded people in mind.

If you have played World of Warcraft before any expansions and then played it in 08-12, you know exactly what Im talking about when I use the term catering to casuals. And this is a PC MMORPG. Good game to study as it changes with time, new expansion and its affected by the changing playerbase and new trends in video game industry.

examples of what?

Why the fuck am I wasting my time on you anyway?

Defining games and succesful games made by small/starting game studios.

I'm saying that if you want to claim there's no/less innovation in modern gaming than you need to be able to back it up with something other than "because it isn't like the 'golden age'".

I think if you make a list of your favorite games of this current generation and I make a list of my favorite 1990s games and then we analyze those games together, we will get better results than we will if I look up the list of most sold games on current platforms or analyze the games I personally own for current gen platforms.

Im a mainstream gamer. During 1990s many games that I bought were innovative in some way, even though I wasnt searching for innovative games, I just bought what was popular. Most (not all) of the games I have played during this generation that I bought because I heard a lot of praise about them felt like they didnt have anything terribly new up their sleeves. Something that was done before, now with better graphics.

Some of the new IPs were innovative during their first go but most the sequels didnt add enough to be considered innovative, they were just good games. Nothing wrong with that and Im not implying that Mega Man 6 was some how innovative.
I will use one of my favorite games from the latter half of the 1990s as an example. First Crash Bandicoot -something new. The second? Pretty much like the first, nothing new here. The third one? Time attack, a new dimension to the gameplay. Speed running isnt the most original of ideas, but the thought that you have to see the levels in a new light and use the environment and enemies to make new more quick paths for yourself is sort of innovative. You could say that Sonic invented that, but I think that by adding a new gameplay element like that to an old franchise, they made sure that the series didnt become stale. Its great how time attack in Crash 3, Sonic Generations and Donkey Kong Country Returns makes you rethink the paths you choose in level and think of new ways to save some time on your run. Its understandable if you think thats not enough to make Crash 3 an innovative title. Thats what happens with sequels usually, game devs dont want to fix whats not broken and end up having a series that becomes stale and repetitive.

Ok. Two examples from this generation.
BioShock. Great storyline. The game tries to be like System Shock, but the storyline, overall theme of the game, graphic look, enemy design etc was very unique. No one had thought of mixing up FPS with Ayn Rand, 1940s fashion and architecture, steampunk etc before. An innovative title in my books.

Red Dead Redemption. Great storyline, I think I enjoyed it more than BioShock, but it was pretty much GTA with horses. Generic western themes. Nothing wrong with that, I just dont feel like there was much of any actual innovation in the game, just a brilliantly executed game with good writing, music, graphics, gameplay etc.

[Zing]

This is not intended as a statement for or against modern games. I was curious about the number of sequels now versus the NES.

For the 50+ NES games that sold over one million copies, only eight were sequels of any form.

For the 60+ Xbox 360 games that have sold over one million, 35 are direct sequels, with many more being games in the same "series", but not considered direct sequels.

The data for the PS3 seems incomplete, but what I see for the 25 "million sellers", 14 are sequels. Again, a few more are clearly part of a "series", but maybe not considered direct sequels.

Let's check the SNES. Surely the NES was "first" so it wouldn't have many sequels, but the SNES should be prime for sequels. Out of 40+ "million sellers", 14 are considered sequels.

[Erik_Twice]

Poor dsheim is going to have a vein explode or something at this rate.

I think if you make a list of your favorite games of this current generation and I make a list of my favorite 1990s games and then we analyze those games together, we will get better results than we will if I look up the list of most sold games on current platforms or analyze the games I personally own for current gen platforms.

For someone who rant so much about underestimating gamers, you seem to be making some awful jumps in logic, I shouldn't need to explain to you why "the best selling games" compared to "my favourite 1990 games" is not a good way of proving that there's less innovation today.

[Menegrothx]

Let's check the SNES. Surely the NES was "first" so it wouldn't have many sequels, but the SNES should be prime for sequels. Out of 40+ "million sellers", 14 are considered sequels.

SNES had quite a lot of “Super“ versions of Nintendo franchises that started on NES. Thats sort of what I meant when I talked about Nintendo exploiting nostalgia/strong IPs, as many Nintendo franchises have been mostly graphically updated to the SNES/N64/GC/Wii. Of course there are exceptions like Ocarina of Time and Super Mario 64 among those games.

For someone who rant so much about underestimating gamers, you seem to be making some awful jumps in logic, I shouldn't need to explain to you why "the best selling games" compared to "my favourite 1990 games" is not a good way of proving that there's less innovation today.

I dont see how exactly those two are related?
Thats exactly why I said that its better that dsheinem lists innovative current gen games so we can look more objectively at this, as he is the one defending his point of view in this argument and he knows more about the current generation of games than I do.
If I as an ignorant kid in the 1990s got my hand on many innovative titles by accident (I didnt even own a Saturn or a Dreamcast!), even though I cant find nearly as many innovative titles now as an adult tells something in my opinion. I only played mainstream titles, the kind that young kids who really dont know much about video games like to play. Nowadays it would mean games like Modern Warfare 3, Battlefield 3, GTA 4, Saints Row, Skyrim, Gears of War 3, Assassin's Creed etc. There are games like Dark Souls, El Shaddai, Deus Ex HR etc there, but I dont know if those are really popular in the same scale as the games Im referring to? Maybe if I was back in school I could give an answer.

[o.pwuaioc]

I think if you make a list of your favorite games of this current generation and I make a list of my favorite 1990s games and then we analyze those games together, we will get better results than we will if I look up the list of most sold games on current platforms or analyze the games I personally own for current gen platforms.

For someone who rant so much about underestimating gamers, you seem to be making some awful jumps in logic, I shouldn't need to explain to you why "the best selling games" compared to "my favourite 1990 games" is not a good way of proving that there's less innovation today.

You might need to reread that a bit more closely, because you said he wanted to do exactly the opposite of what he wanted to do.

[Forlorn Drifter]

And my post goes ignored, and a couple of the points ya'll keep arguing over I believe I gave a good opinion on.

And I'm in high school. I'll tell you right now, if it isn't Call of Duty, noone talks about it. Despite the sales of the Gears of War series, people don't hang on, except for hardcore fans like me.

[o.pwuaioc]

And my post goes ignored, and a couple of the points ya'll keep arguing over I believe I gave a good opinion on.

And I'm in high school. I'll tell you right now, if it isn't Call of Duty, noone talks about it. Despite the sales of the Gears of War series, people don't hang on, except for hardcore fans like me.

It wasn't ignored, but I'm not sure what in it would elicit some response?

[BoringSupreez]

And my post goes ignored, and a couple of the points ya'll keep arguing over I believe I gave a good opinion on.

And I'm in high school. I'll tell you right now, if it isn't Call of Duty, noone talks about it. Despite the sales of the Gears of War series, people don't hang on, except for hardcore fans like me.

It wasn't ignored, but I'm not sure what in it would elicit some response?

Not every post is going to get a response. Often, if people agree with something they say nothing.

Also, every high-school student I know is obsessed with Just Dance 3, not COD.