The Wrestling Thread

[Xeogred]

I get the sad feeling that the people who run WWE and TNA just don't care. The kind of passion that you see from fans they just don't have for the business. It's like they are content with the amount of money they make and have no ambition to do better. Cena is the # 1 example of this. When your top babyface gets booed out of buildings and you still keep pushing him anyway because you're content with having only like fifty percent of your audience behind your top guy, that's sad. That's a company that just doesn't have the ambition, the desire to improve, the yearning to please the fans or the passion to present the best product possible. When I say the company, I should really be saying Vince McMahon. Either he doesn't care anymore, or he just doesn't know what he's doing anymore with senility setting in

John Cena is a symbol to me. A symbol of a company that's just coasting by and mailing it in. If Cena is the best you've got, then you're really not trying. Seeing him alongside the Rock is like seeing a midcarder standing by a legend.

Thank you. We just can't emphasis it enough, we all want to see the Rock beat Cena's ass come this WM, but seriously in the grand scheme of things, it's almost embarrassing he has to come back to fight THIS guy of all people. THIS guy is the one that's been carrying the torch of this company for the last decade? How the hell do you go from Austin/Rock to ... Cena? My ultimate guess is that a lot of old fans like myself jumped ship when the WCW/WWF merger was handled so poorly and things just went to crap. From there, we all left, things tamed down, and a new era of young kids and fans came in just in the right time for Cena and have stuck with him since. That's the only way I can make sense of the whole situation. Cena didn't even have to try to work his way to the top unlike others such as Bret, Shawn, Rock, etc, Cena was just put there by the damn company and they keep him there for no reason. That's why I hate seeing Punk bust his ass off when in the end even if he's getting the belt off and on lately, the "hot potato" game will probably keep rolling and he may never get the real spotlight or push that he deserves.

Seriously, I cannot even begin to express how mindboggling it is that Cena is basically in the position of the likes of Hogan, Flair, Savage, Warrior, Bret, Shawn, Undertaker, Austin, and Rock. He is a total bitch compared to these guys. I want him gone. I know for a fact I'd be enjoying the WWE probably like 10x more right now if he were out of the picture completely. You think I'm gonna care to remember this guy at all when he leaves? Unlike the other guys mentioned there? No I won't give a crap to remember him. He brought nothing to the table and he obviously has absolutely zero talent in being able to reinvent himself unlike guys such as Jericho and others.

[pakopako]

... the WWE needs PPV sales desperately and it means they can only achieve those numbers by bringing back one of the biggest Pro Wrestling icons of the last decade. Honestly, if I were any one of the writers on creative backstage, I'd be ashamed of myself - that the only way to gain any semblance of attention to the product is by calling on retired names that have since moved on.

Ah, but that's the nature of the business. Why improvise when you can repackage? Just look at fashion trends, finishers, or why Megatron is still around. Letting go of old habits is hard.

A Perfectplex!

No, that's only when Curt Hennig did it. (And in some cases, Dean Douglas and fellow MN native Brock Lesnar.) And it only really looked impressive because that guy was just 6' 0" and could pull it off against Paul "Big Show" Wight while the two of them were in WCW. I cringe a little when Rock pulls out a "Eugene" (or "Avatar" if you want to drag Al Snow all about it) and ape finishers as intermediary moves. (The DDT and sharpshooter are crying.)

[Xeogred]

Yeah, Curt Henning Perfectplexing "The Giant" here:


Madness, and I can't believe that didn't win the match... :\

[Breetai]

My ultimate guess is that a lot of old fans like myself jumped ship when the WCW/WWF merger was handled so poorly and things just went to crap.

That was one thing, but I think you missed the biggest thing that had people really lose interest (myself included). 2007 was just a bit* of a pivotal year in professional wrestling entertainment.

*The single most important event to negatively affect pro wrestling, aside from perhaps Bret Hart basically killing keyfabe in 1997, happened in 2007. Anyone who watches or watched wrestling can guess what I am referring to.

[Xeogred]

You'll have to elaborate since I didn't watch then but I'm interested to know what you're suggesting, heh...

The Vince / Benoit death thing perhaps?

[Razzmatazz]

I still think the biggest thing to affect wrestling was the Internet. Back in the late 90s up until about 2002 when I watched it religiously as a teenager, we was still on dial up internet and storylines and pay per view results wouldn't be so widely available (and I wouldn't even look for them). I can only imagine what the 80s were like where kayfabe was more secretive. Nowadays I can watch WWE any time with Tivo/Sky+ or on Youtube, storylines get leaked and we know all sorts of things about superstars (wrestlers!!!!).
Another big difference now is that there are a lot of guys with no actual personality. Where are they characters in wrestling now? If you look at the mid-card from Wrestlemania this year compared to one ten years ago: (Wrestlemania 17)


Chris Jericho (c) defeated William Regal These two had character and are both great wrestlers.

Tazz and The APA (Bradshaw and Faarooq) (with Jacqueline) defeated Right to Censor (The Godfather, Val Venis and Bull Buchanan) (with Steven Richards) Tazz, relentless nutcase, music suits him so well, APA had a great gimmick which Beer Money are now utilising, they had fun promos too. Right To Censor was hella annoying, but it was a character, reformed pimp, porn star, policeman's boyfriend.

Kane defeated Raven (c) and The Big Show Kane with mask, great character. Raven the tramp looking Kurt Cobain, bit weird but it's better than Zack Ryder! Big Show fair enough.

Eddie Guerrero (with Perry Saturn) defeated Test (c) Eddie the cheating latino, great gimmick. Test OK he didn't really have one.

Kurt Angle defeated Chris Benoit Cocky olympic hero against mass murderer.

Chyna defeated Ivory (c) Scary man dressed as a woman in a mans body against a boring woman.

Shane McMahon defeated Vince McMahon (Street Fight with Mick Foley as the Special Guest Referee) Spoilt son who does ECW spots against the BAWSSS

Edge and Christian defeated The Dudley Boyz (Bubba Ray and D-Von) (c) and The Hardy Boyz (Matt and Jeff) Edge and Christian, pretty Hanson rejects, Dudleys some crazed inbreds with fetishes for home furniture, Hardys daredevils

Undertaker defeated Triple H Deadman and Triple H, don't really know if he has a gimmick he's just yeah, Triple H

Stone Cold Steve Austin defeated The Rock beer swigging guy who hates everyone against hilarious studmuffin

Then lets look at Wrestlemania 27

Edge (c) (with Christian) defeated Alberto Del Rio (with Ricardo Rodriguez and Brodus Clay) I'm not a fan of Del Rio, but I'll admit atleast he has some sort of gimmick, they don't use it enough though. Why doesn't he buy protection more, or buy the title opportunities, the car thing is ridiculous too, basically robbed Eddie's entrance and Million Dollar Mans gimmick.

Cody Rhodes defeated Rey Mysterio Disfigured face is a good enough gimmick if he didn't look like a handsome failed boy band member. Fair enough he is meant to be vain but now that he wrestles in tight whities he just comes across as gay. Been hanging out with Goldust too much (which is an AWESOME gimmick). Mysterio the lucha libre David that fights Goliaths, basically there to please the kids with entrance now.

Kane, Big Show, Santino Marella, and Kofi Kingston defeated The Corre (Wade Barrett, Ezekiel Jackson, Justin Gabriel, and Heath Slater) Kane playing the fat bald man, he should have leant more towards the Kane gimmick really, when you loko at Taker who keeps his gimmick with little reinventions, and then Kane has been in limbo for 8 years. I always wish he was better used. Big Show the friendly giant, Santino is great I won't lie, Kofi the Jamaican hailing from Ghana never really made sense to me, The Corre was just The Borre. Wade Barrett is great, just needs a bit of a gimmick. That trench coat he wears works, maybe be a character like The Punisher?

Randy Orton defeated CM Punk Orton's character is tiresome now, unless he starts spazzing out backstage and punting people I just think he is the PG Austin. Punk as the voice of hardcore fans is effortlessly cool. Straight Edge is a good gimmick too.

Jerry Lawler defeated Michael Cole (with Jack Swagger) Wise cracking face who's better as a heel against wise cracking heel who's better off dead.

The Undertaker defeated Triple H Having a story helps make a great match. End of.

Nicole "Snooki" Polizzi, Trish Stratus, and John Morrison defeated Dolph Ziggler and LayCool (Layla and Michelle McCool) (with Vickie Guerrero) Still don't know why this wasn't Morrison vs Ziggler, could have been a Wrestlemania classic. Ziggler and Morrison also need some sort of gimmick as they are boring, don't really have any story behind them. And rely on women speaking for them. Maybe if Ziggler was married to Vickie and she slept with Morrison or something, they definitely could have made this something.

The Miz (c) (with Alex Riley) defeated John Cena The Miz is pretty good at what he does but he has a shit name and a shit catchphrase. Cena as the 30 year old kid just plain sucks. He reminds me of that film Jack.

Sorry for the long post but basically I think they need some more characters in WWE, better storylines (Nexus last year was great, then it just kinda died, and the guys are now just content with mid-card matches on Smackdown.) and more backstage stuff, I miss the hardcore matches and the parking lot brawls, the feeling anything could happen anywhere. But I'm just a moany WWE fan like thousands of others, I will still watch Raw each week and the PPVs.

[retrosportsgamer]

While Wrestlemania 27 was pretty underwhelming, let's be fair - Wrestlemania 17 is considered one of the best PPVs ever.

[Gamerforlife]

Then lets look at Wrestlemania 27

Edge (c) (with Christian) defeated Alberto Del Rio (with Ricardo Rodriguez and Brodus Clay) I'm not a fan of Del Rio, but I'll admit atleast he has some sort of gimmick, they don't use it enough though. Why doesn't he buy protection more, or buy the title opportunities, the car thing is ridiculous too, basically robbed Eddie's entrance and Million Dollar Mans gimmick.

I think Del Rio is too by the numbers. Everything he does we've seen before. He's not innovative or original. That's why he's boring

Kane, Big Show, Santino Marella, and Kofi Kingston defeated The Corre (Wade Barrett, Ezekiel Jackson, Justin Gabriel, and Heath Slater) Kane playing the fat bald man, he should have leant more towards the Kane gimmick really, when you loko at Taker who keeps his gimmick with little reinventions, and then Kane has been in limbo for 8 years. I always wish he was better used. Big Show the friendly giant, Santino is great I won't lie, Kofi the Jamaican hailing from Ghana never really made sense to me, The Corre was just The Borre. Wade Barrett is great, just needs a bit of a gimmick. That trench coat he wears works, maybe be a character like The Punisher?

I think when the WWE ruined the Nexus angle, they pretty much killed Barrett. He's never going to be that interesting again. Wade isn't good by himself, but he's great as a faction leader. Too bad the WWE doesn't really do factions anymore

Randy Orton defeated CM Punk Orton's character is tiresome now, unless he starts spazzing out backstage and punting people I just think he is the PG Austin. Punk as the voice of hardcore fans is effortlessly cool. Straight Edge is a good gimmick too.

I've always seen Orton as an Austin/Triple H hybrid. Orton is great when he has a good storyline. Creative hasn't had anything interesting for him in a while. He's also much, much better as a heel.

Nicole "Snooki" Polizzi, Trish Stratus, and John Morrison defeated Dolph Ziggler and LayCool (Layla and Michelle McCool) (with Vickie Guerrero) Still don't know why this wasn't Morrison vs Ziggler, could have been a Wrestlemania classic. Ziggler and Morrison also need some sort of gimmick as they are boring, don't really have any story behind them. And rely on women speaking for them. Maybe if Ziggler was married to Vickie and she slept with Morrison or something, they definitely could have made this something.

I think Morrison had backstage heat on him at the time. He's gotten into a lot of trouble for dating Melina, who is supposedly a spoiled, nutcase. I think Melina is gorgeous and talented, but she rubs people the wrong way. He reportedly got into even more trouble after that Mania match by not showing Trish any respect. Morrison has lots of lady problems For a guy as handsome as he is, he is clueless when it comes to picking women or knowing how to treat women

The Miz (c) (with Alex Riley) defeated John Cena The Miz is pretty good at what he does but he has a shit name and a shit catchphrase. Cena as the 30 year old kid just plain sucks. He reminds me of that film Jack.

and that's a big part of why Cena sucks, his whole character is immature and stupid, much like most kids are. Even his rants against the Rock, which were happening before his feud with him even started, just seem like the rants of a spoiled child. Sadly, I think a lot of what we see on tv is the real John Cena. Really? You're the face of the company. You get everything handed to you and yet you still have to complain? and you complain about the guy who paved the road for you? There's be no Cena if not for the Rock. There'd be no Five Knuckle Shuffle if not for the People's Elbow. John Cena should be kissing the asses of The Rock and Steve Austin. Ungrateful prick. That's why I hate Cena. I heard someone say recently that if you look at Cena lately. He looks and acts like he's above the business. The crap he does like loudly calling out moves during tv and pay per view shows and the shit he says to the camera when he comes out for his entrances are very unprofessional. Not too mention when he was wearing those stupid shorts or how he defaced the World Title with that spinner crap. He practically no sold the Rock Bottom at Survivor Series too. If Ziggler had taken that Rock Bottom, he'd have acted like he just got shot by a gun

It really pisses me off when people bash on the Rock because I've never heard anyone give a legitimately good reason for hating him. Joe Negron's anti-Rock rants on the Smart Wrestling Fan podcast are essentially why I have stopped listening to it, because his hatred of the guy has no strong foundation. People just hate the Rock out of jealousy, nothing more

[mas]

You know for me I feel that wrestlemania 19 was also right up there with wrestlemania 17. Just think for a minute. You had austin/rock, brock vs angle true wrestling amateurs going at it, vince vs hogan in which I believe both their last best match that either had. Triple h/booker t (Wcw champion vs wwf champion), shawn michaels/chris jericho, I don't remember who undertaker faced but I do remember his entrance with the flag, limp bisket playing and the harley he drove down. To me I think that was a great line up. Hell just having piper show up for the hogan match was awesome

[Mendoza]

Gamerforlife: Damn straight on the Rock. And your giving Cena too much credit by saying practically, he no showed and thats about as big of an insult as you can get. Unless your name is Undertaker you don't get to legit no show anything. When taker did it back in the day it was special, and he pretty much stopped doing it years and years ago.

What do people want from the Rock? He doesn't have to do any of this stuff, he makes way more money for far less effort doing that last Fast and Furious movie. If you want to bad mouth him, then do it for trash like Tooth Fairy and such.