Using Bombs in Shmups , a sin ?

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dunpeal2064
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Re: Using Bombs in Shmups , a sin ?

Post by dunpeal2064 »

Dylan wrote:No credits, then no bombs? At this rate the joystick and fire buttons will be off limits within the decade.

You can use a joystick, it just has to be attached to an Egret II located in japan, and your run has to be witnessed by at least 2 members of arcadia, and played on a pcb that has never been touched by human hands.

You can bomb though, thats ok.
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Re: Using Bombs in Shmups , a sin ?

Post by wip3outguy7 »

dunpeal2064 wrote:You can use a joystick, it just has to be attached to an Egret II located in japan, and your run has to be witnessed by at least 2 members of arcadia, and played on a pcb that has never been touched by human hands.

You can bomb though, thats ok.
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Re: Using Bombs in Shmups , a sin ?

Post by Inazuma »

It's not up to us to decide this. The game developers already decided. Some shoot em ups reward you for using bombs and some punish you. Learn the rules of the game and do your best to play it. If you add on personal rules that don't actually exist, it will only hold you back.

This same logic works for every other game out there.
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Re: Using Bombs in Shmups , a sin ?

Post by MrPopo »

Inazuma wrote:It's not up to us to decide this. The game developers already decided. Some shoot em ups reward you for using bombs and some punish you. Learn the rules of the game and do your best to play it. If you add on personal rules that don't actually exist, it will only hold you back.

This same logic works for every other game out there.
This points for those who's goal is to get the maximum score. Some shmups penalize you for bombing, others don't. The credits discussion tends to come in to play for those who are trying to get to the end of the game. I am not aware of any shmup that doesn't reset your score on a new credit. So if you're trying to just play through the entire game when you have unlimited credits (as you do on the home ports/MAME) you essentially have god mode. It basically removes the accomplishment to feed credits in. The original arcade incarnations got around this by making credits cost money. If it was worth $5 for you to beat the game then go for it.
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Re: Using Bombs in Shmups , a sin ?

Post by Hatta »

MrPopo wrote:I am not aware of any shmup that doesn't reset your score on a new credit.
IIRC DoDonPachi II fails to do this.
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Re: Using Bombs in Shmups , a sin ?

Post by Hobie-wan »

MrPopo wrote: I am not aware of any shmup that doesn't reset your score on a new credit.
There are some out there, names escape me though. I'm pretty sure some will keep your score but will mark you as having continued on the high score screen. I'm thinking one of the Raiden games does this. Smash TV is an arena shooter, but the arcade version doesn't reset your score. Having just just played through it at Arcade Expo last weekend I know this for certain.
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Re: Using Bombs in Shmups , a sin ?

Post by dunpeal2064 »

wip3outguy7 wrote:
dunpeal2064 wrote:You can use a joystick, it just has to be attached to an Egret II located in japan, and your run has to be witnessed by at least 2 members of arcadia, and played on a pcb that has never been touched by human hands.

You can bomb though, thats ok.
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Totally

I think the reason I love games like Battle Garegga and Ibara so much is that instead of punishing you for bombing, they reward you. Most (Cave) shmups punish you for bombing, almost as much, if not more, than they punish you for dying.

DDPII doesn't reset your score when a credit is used, but most people set that game aside anyways, as it wasn't developed by cave. The true sequel to DDP is much more strict. However, that game at least replaces your bomb with a hyper when it is obtained, allowing you a sort of out (although that out raises the rank)

I don't see anything wrong with using credits to learn the game, but its not really how the game was meant to play. I mean, if I game over on stage 2 of Mushihimesama Futari, credit, and pick up the max power... well, I'm not going to need to play until half way through stage 4, because I am way stronger than the game meant for me to be.

In a "real run" in a shmup, my goal is never to clear the game, but instead to beat my previous score. I think thats where the meat is at with these games. There isn't really too much to be happy about if you use infinite credits to beat a shmup, but if you only used one, that is a great accomplishment.

Of course, it always helps to practice, and in practice, anything is fair game. I'll skip straight to "trouble spots" and do them over and over until I think I can do it in a real run.

EDIT: I should state that I do eventually have the goal of clearing a shmup, but that only happens when I am regularly getting to the last stage.
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Re: Using Bombs in Shmups , a sin ?

Post by J T »

Yeah, bombing can be a fun part of the gameplay. Most shmups reward you for constantly blasting your bullets, which is fun, but it's also the basis for most every shmup out there. I think the best shmups add some other element and are designed so that you are rewarded for using a variety of weapons in different situations, including bombs.
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Re: Using Bombs in Shmups , a sin ?

Post by fastbilly1 »

I use bombs early, or if I am on a boss, but keep one just in case. The problem with keeping them for "oh shit" moments is that I always forget that I have them...
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Re: Using Bombs in Shmups , a sin ?

Post by o.pwuaioc »

fastbilly1 wrote:I use bombs early, or if I am on a boss, but keep one just in case. The problem with keeping them for "oh shit" moments is that I always forget that I have them...
When the action is too intense, using bombs to get out is the last thing on my mind.
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