Steve Jobs named most influential person in gaming!

[noiseredux]

Mario Kart has been dumbed down since they abandoned coins after Mario Kart: Super Circuit.

and would you agree, or disagree that this was because of Steve Jobs?

[Inazuma]

first off I'd actually say that the Mario Kart series balance issues started earlier than Wii with the inclusion of the Blue Shell. Just a thought.

At any rate, if this is the only specific example of dumbing down, let's actually think about it: how exactly do suggest that Nintendo's dumbing down of their game series has anything to do with Steve Jobs? Your original example was about some anonymous company that made iPhone games. Does Nintendo make iPhone games?

After Apple, Nintendo is the most responsible for growing the casual market.

Mario Kart Wii isn't the only game that's been dumbed down to appeal to the growing casual market. I'd argue that most modern games are this way, some worse than others.

Compare today's games with those from just one generation ago. Do you see the difference?

[Flake]

Compare today's games with those from just one generation ago. Do you see the difference?

Nope. Some games appeal to me. Others don't. That's par for course.

[noiseredux]

After Apple, Nintendo is the most responsible for growing the casual market.

that's fine, but the initial claim you made was that Steve Jobs was responsible for more bad than good in video gaming. I asked you to back that claim up. I have no idea what Nintendo has to do with Steve Jobs? You're not backing up your claim. I'm asking you to stop and think about the claim you're making. If there is no reason to make it then maybe you're just making it because you feel like that's what's expected of you. It's not too late to change the claim if you can't think of a good reason to make it.

[Inazuma]

After Apple, Nintendo is the most responsible for growing the casual market.

that's fine, but the initial claim you made was that Steve Jobs was responsible for more bad than good in video gaming. I asked you to back that claim up. I have no idea what Nintendo has to do with Steve Jobs? You're not backing up your claim. I'm asking you to stop and think about the claim you're making. If there is no reason to make it then maybe you're just making it because you feel like that's what's expected of you. It's not too late to change the claim if you can't think of a good reason to make it.

The larger the casual market gets, the worse things get for gamers and video games themselves.

[noiseredux]

The larger the casual market gets, the worse things get for gamers and video games themselves.

You're still not telling me how Steve Jobs has directly influenced a specific game that resulted in "dumbing down."

[Yancakes]

Also, define "dumbed down". Also, it's stupid to say that all games, period, no exceptions are now dumbed down.

New Super Mario Bros. for Wii, for instance, is way, way more complicated than the original Super Mario Bros. for NES. In general, games have gotten more and more complicated, that's why controllers now have ~12 buttons and two joysticks instead of two buttons and one d-pad.

Also, comparing Apple to Nintendo is pretty silly in and of itself. One company primarily makes computers, phones and media players while the other makes video games and video game systems. To one company, gaming is a secondary or tertiary focus- hell, probably not even that, gaming probably means approximately squat to a company known for computers that won't even play most games. To the other company, VIDEO GAMES ARE WHAT THEY MAKE, BECAUSE THEY ARE A VIDEO GAME COMPANY.

Also note that Nintendo's share of the market is separate from that of Microsoft and Sony's. Again, Sony and Microsoft do other things first, but their video game divisions aren't even in direct competition with Nintendo because Nintendo's marketing strategy, their systems, and the games they make are geared for a totally different demographic.

It's not an issue of "RAH CASUAL GAMING IS RUINING THE GAMING MARKET", it's actually an issue of "RAH CASUAL GAMING IS SELLING WELL BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE AREN'T GIANT FUCKING NERDS".

The "hardcore" market is still alive and well, you just have to LOOK for it. It doesn't get advertised as much, and awesome games are still being made. It's just that in the past, the only market there WAS was a "hardcore market", ignoring the fact that Barbie has been releasing games since the early 90's, now there's a massive casual market that is overshadowing BUT NOT eliminating the "hardcore market". Realistically, the mainstream options have always been shitty, accessible and full of mass appeal- not just in gaming, but in music, movies, literature and pretty much every field of media.

Every genre of music is still awesome, but only the shitty bands get played on the radio.

Have you seen the blockbuster movies realeased this year? They're no better than the blockbusters from ten years, or twenty years ago. You just have to LOOK for the good stuff. It's all there, just waiting to be found.

Just like video games.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go back to ENJOYING video games for what they are, instead of bitching internet forum and pining for the old days because I'm too busy complaining about the state of the modern gaming industry to notice how many good games there are out there that I could be having fun with.

[Yancakes]

ps Steve Jobs still sucks and I hate Apple

[noiseredux]

Inazuma, I think it's good that you have opinions. I'm just asking you to think about why you're making this statement that Steve Jobs had a negative effect on gaming. I think that maybe you feel like we all expect you to have such an opinion since Jobs worked for a giant corporation, and you tend to think of corporations as evil by default. But you shouldn't make a statement based solely on what you think we all think about you. You need to stop and ask yourself, "did Jobs himself actually impact any specific game I can think of? And if so, how?" At first I thought you probably did think about it, but then your response was about Nintendo who has no connection to Jobs or to iPhone apps so that really has nothing to do with your claim that Jobs has negatively impacted video games.

[Yancakes]

It's funny because Steve Jobs had pretty much no impact on gaming, aside from the fact that people make games for his products.

It's like raging against the guy who invented t-shirts because someone put a logo you don't like on one of them.