Anyone switching to a credit union with what's going on?

[Hatta]

And yes, it is their fault if they can't find a job.

Really? There are 5 applicants for ever job opening right now. How do you blame the applicants for a lack of job openings? You can't plant a seed in infertile ground and blame the seed for not growing.

They chose to take a chance and go to college after high school, banking that their 4 year degree would make up for having no experience, no skills, and a shit ton of debt.

Of course they did. People have been told from birth that education is the most important thing. You're really going to put all the responsibility for this on the shoulders of optimistic eighteen year old kids who were sold a bill of goods? Do the rest of us not have a responsibility to ensure that the opportunity we promise people is actually there?

Also, are you aware that it's no longer possible to discharge student loan debt in bankruptcy? If you're a businessman, you can set up a company, take out all sorts of loans, drive the company into the ground and walk away scott free. On the other hand, if you're an individual who just wants an opportunity, you're saddled with that burden for the rest of your life. Just another way the laws are set up to favor the powerful.

You pay your money, you take your chances.

Now who's not thinking? The reality of the situation is that there is a bubble in student loans. We can either renegotiate now, or we can deal with another credit crisis later. Those are the two realistic choices here.

[ApolloBoy]

And yes, it is their fault if they can't find a job.

Really? There are 5 applicants for ever job opening right now. How do you blame the applicants for a lack of job openings? You can't plant a seed in infertile ground and blame the seed for not growing.

This. I can't begin to tell you how many times I've tried to apply for a job (yes, even the shitty ones) only to be turned away for no real reason. The closest I've come is a job interview and I wound up getting rejected for that as well. It's pretty damn petty to blame people for not having a job when you have more people than jobs and businesses aren't willing to hire enough. I actually had someone call me lazy (!) for simply not having a job despite the fact that I've lost count of all the resumes and applications I've sent in, and despite the fact that I'm making use of my time by continuing my education!

[MrPopo]

And yes, it is their fault if they can't find a job.

Really? There are 5 applicants for ever job opening right now. How do you blame the applicants for a lack of job openings? You can't plant a seed in infertile ground and blame the seed for not growing.

This. I can't begin to tell you how many times I've tried to apply for a job (yes, even the shitty ones) only to be turned away for no real reason. The closest I've come is a job interview and I wound up getting rejected for that as well. It's pretty damn petty to blame people for not having a job when you have more people than jobs and businesses aren't willing to hire enough. I actually had someone call me lazy (!) for simply not having a job despite the fact that I've lost count of all the resumes and applications I've sent in, and despite the fact that I'm making use of my time by continuing my education!

And yet there is fruit rotting on the vine in our fields because we've kicked out all the immigrants.

[o.pwuaioc]

Really? There are 5 applicants for ever job opening right now. How do you blame the applicants for a lack of job openings? You can't plant a seed in infertile ground and blame the seed for not growing.

This. I can't begin to tell you how many times I've tried to apply for a job (yes, even the shitty ones) only to be turned away for no real reason. The closest I've come is a job interview and I wound up getting rejected for that as well. It's pretty damn petty to blame people for not having a job when you have more people than jobs and businesses aren't willing to hire enough. I actually had someone call me lazy (!) for simply not having a job despite the fact that I've lost count of all the resumes and applications I've sent in, and despite the fact that I'm making use of my time by continuing my education!

And yet there is fruit rotting on the vine in our fields because we've kicked out all the immigrants.

Citation needed.

[MrPopo]

This. I can't begin to tell you how many times I've tried to apply for a job (yes, even the shitty ones) only to be turned away for no real reason. The closest I've come is a job interview and I wound up getting rejected for that as well. It's pretty damn petty to blame people for not having a job when you have more people than jobs and businesses aren't willing to hire enough. I actually had someone call me lazy (!) for simply not having a job despite the fact that I've lost count of all the resumes and applications I've sent in, and despite the fact that I'm making use of my time by continuing my education!

And yet there is fruit rotting on the vine in our fields because we've kicked out all the immigrants.

Citation needed.

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colber ... nt-workers

Yes, it's Colbert Report, but the actual news report cited in his video states as such.

[ApolloBoy]

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colber ... nt-workers

Yes, it's Colbert Report, but the actual news report cited in his video states as such.

I'm curious as to why you brought that up in reply to my post, considering I live nowhere near Alabama. Job markets tend to differ quite a bit depending on where you are.

[MrPopo]

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colber ... nt-workers

Yes, it's Colbert Report, but the actual news report cited in his video states as such.

I'm curious as to why you brought that up in reply to my post, considering I live nowhere near Alabama. Job markets tend to differ quite a bit depending on where you are.

Because the video points out that a lot of unemployed Americans still have "standards" when it comes to jobs they're applying for. They are artifically reducing the job market before they start, and then complain when they can't find a job. Yes, it's silly to apply to every job in the country, as you aren't qualified for many of them and you can't physically get to most of them. But if you haven't exhausted every help wanted in the area that you are qualified for then your joblessness is because you aren't trying hard enough.

[Flake]

The reality of the situation is that there is a bubble in student loans. We can either renegotiate now, or we can deal with another credit crisis later. Those are the two realistic choices here.

A bubble? Oh, no there's no bubble in student loans. People ask for X dollars and they are loaned X dollars at Y percent. A student has three choices: Federal loans (those are the ones that are mighty hard to discharge) or private loans (those are the ones that cost a bit more in the long run) or...

...and this is the crazy notion...

not going to college if they cannot afford it.

I couldn't afford college. I graduated near the top of my class in highschool but I had two things going against me:

-My mom made just a mite too much money to qualify as 'poor'.
-I am white and male; the best non-athletic scholarships were not available to me.

So there. College wasn't something I could realistically do without running the risk of incurring loans I wouldn't be able to repay. Was this a FAIR situation to find myself in? No. But if life was fair we'd have a lot less to talk about, right?

I joined the military. I learned a skill. Picked up some really nifty work experience. Got my college paid for.

My point is that people treat higher education like it's something they are ENTITLED to. Maybe in a perfect world it would be, but this isn't a perfect world. So people deliberately ignore reality, sign up for loans they KNOW are going to be hard to pay back, and oh-so-often go to college with no plan for the future. There are people taking classes at four year universities that shouldn't be there - they should be in a community college, a trade school, a work program, something that is realistic for the situation they are in.

Tuition rates are through the roof because PEOPLE KEEP COMING. Attendance at universities throughout the nation has never been higher, despite prices being insane. And why shouldn't the prices be insane if people will pay them no matter what? If people are willing to pay thousands of dollars a credit hour then by all means, the universities SHOULD charge those thousands of dollars. The universities are not putting anyone in debt - they are doing it to themselves!

The lack of personal accountability in society today makes me want to scream.

[o.pwuaioc]

Flake, you are one of a kind. I've seen so many people pressure kids into going to college, that to say they just made a dumb choice is at best inconsiderate of reality. Should we get rid of all student loans? Of course not. Should we punish kids who were doing the right thing until some bankers and execs fucked this country up? Fuck no. Your attitude is one of the reasons Americans are lagging in educational standards. Instead of being all high and mighty, why not aim to fix shit?

[Flake]

*snip*

I'd love to fix it - but you see the problem and think it's the solution.

Right now a BA doesn't have the power it used to. There's too many of them out there. We've had the situation you described for far too long - so now TONS of people have those 4 year degrees and they are all fighting over the same jobs.

We need to encourage people to seek other alternatives. We need more plumbers, carpenters, craftsman, electricians, masons, automotive technicians, etc. We need people with skills that can be applied to the industries that have never demanded more workers than they do right now.

When I got hired for my job, my employer even told me that they didn't need me to fax them a copy of my college degree - they just wanted me for my work experience and skill set. I love having a degree but it's just icing on the cake these days.

There ARE jobs out there - but a lot of them aren't the types that need people with four year degrees in philosophy.