Anyone switching to a credit union with what's going on?

[o.pwuaioc]

If people want to see how to resolve this, we should look to Iceland for some pointers. Iceland's banks plunged the entire country into bankruptcy, the people were expected to bail them out, the rest of Europe pressured them to do so, but the people revolted and caused a revolution, held the bankers accountable, and drafted a new constitution.

http://sacsis.org.za/site/article/728.1

Iceland has 33 guns per 100 private citizens.

The US has 88 guns per 100 private citizens.

There can be no thing like a 'little revolution' here in the US. If a revolution ever comes to pass a little debt or banking problems are going to seem quite minor compared to the price that will be paid.

Iceland's revolution was a little less Libya and a lot more...well...Iceland.

[Flake]

A revolution in the US would be more Libya than Libya. We do rate number one in the world for gun ownership, after all.

[MrPopo]

It was also shown that they were handled through settlements and other options that the justice system has. Just because it wasn't the way you WANTED it to be handled doesn't mean the justice system never got involved.

Justice is blind. The way these crimes have been handled is anything but. If the rich go free for crimes that the poor would be imprisoned for, that's no justice at all.

I think that's an unsolvable problem. The first step would be to remove the ability of a prosecuting party to offer a settlement. This removes good police tools like plea bargains for minor criminals allowing them to implicate the boss. But let's say that's an acceptable trade. So now every offence is required to be prosecuted by law. Except that the rich will still be able to easily find prosecutors who "lose the paperwork" or other such schenanigans. So we're right back where we started, only now the less-than-rich are probably worse off.

[o.pwuaioc]

A revolution in the US would be more Libya than Libya. We do rate number one in the world for gun ownership, after all.

All I'm saying is that it ain't gonna happen. And Iceland's "revolution" can hardly be called a revolution. It was a change in government, yes, but it wasn't guns a-blazin' FREEDOM OR DEATH sort of thing.

[Hatta]

The protesters don't have a clue.

Neither does the government.

Today's bit of wisdom: Forgive all college debt.

An extreme solution to an extreme problem. There's nearly 1 trillion dollars in outstanding student loans, and there are fewer and fewer jobs to be had. What happens when that bubble pops?

Now I don't necessarily think that complete loan forgiveness is workable, but I can't blame them for trying. There's definitely a serious problem that needs addressing in some form. OWS should just be the start of a long national conversation on these issues.

This is a point being made by people who, ostensibly, have earned a degree and should be capable of critical thinking.

These are people who held up their side of the bargain. They went to school and got their education. It's not their fault that there's a recession and they can't find a job. (BTW, who's fault is it?)

There is no attempt at personal responsibility

The ones trying to avoid personal responsibility are the ones who caused the crisis, the finance sector.

Oh and real quick question? Why should Mr. Popo have to change his mind? The guy might not be agreeing with some of you but there is merit and reason in what he is saying.

Where is the reason and merit? All I see is "Fuck yall, I got mine!" There's no reasoning with that.

[Flake]

These are people who held up their side of the bargain. They went to school and got their education. It's not their fault that there's a recession and they can't find a job. (BTW, who's fault is it?)

There's also that part of the bargain where they agreed to pay back the money loaned to them.

And yes, it is their fault if they can't find a job. They chose to take a chance and go to college after high school, banking that their 4 year degree would make up for having no experience, no skills, and a shit ton of debt.

You pay your money, you take your chances.

[Czernobog]

There's also that part of the bargain where they agreed to pay back the money loaned to them.

And yes, it is their fault if they can't find a job. They chose to take a chance and go to college after high school, banking that their 4 year degree would make up for having no experience, no skills, and a shit ton of debt.

You pay your money, you take your chances.

As someone in this situation, fresh out of college with a shitload of debt, and having hell finding jobs, I completely agree with Flake. I might not be able to find a good or hell even a decent job, but there are plenty of shit jobs out there, and I'm working them to pay back the money I owe because that's what I promised I would do.

[Hatta]

I think that's an unsolvable problem. The first step would be to remove the ability of a prosecuting party to offer a settlement. This removes good police tools like plea bargains for minor criminals allowing them to implicate the boss.

I am very much in favor of banning plea bargains. Plea "bargains" account to nothing more than punishing people for exercising their constitutional right to a trial. As for "big bosses", systemic injustice causes far more harm than organized crime. Compare the money lost in the 2008 financial crisis to the amount lost to property crime. I worked it out before, the financial crisis was something like 50 times the size of all property crime in the country. I'll take that bargain.

But let's say that's an acceptable trade. So now every offence is required to be prosecuted by law. Except that the rich will still be able to easily find prosecutors who "lose the paperwork" or other such schenanigans.

There's simply no excuse for any sort of shenanigans in the prosecutors office. Any missing paperwork should be grounds for firing, if not criminal prosecution. What we need is an independent meta-legal system to enforce prosecutorial ethics.

[pakopako]

And yes, it is their fault if they can't find a job. They chose to take a chance and go to college after high school, banking that their 4 year degree would make up for having no experience, no skills, and a shit ton of debt... You pay your money, you take your chances.

As someone in this situation, fresh out of college with a shitload of debt, and having hell finding jobs, I completely agree with Flake. I might not be able to find a good or hell even a decent job, but there are plenty of shit jobs out there, and I'm working them to pay back the money I owe because that's what I promised I would do.

Just make sure you get experience and make inroads into meeting the right people so you don't have to go back to school in another 10 years.

[MrPopo]

But let's say that's an acceptable trade. So now every offence is required to be prosecuted by law. Except that the rich will still be able to easily find prosecutors who "lose the paperwork" or other such schenanigans.

There's simply no excuse for any sort of shenanigans in the prosecutors office. Any missing paperwork should be grounds for firing, if not criminal prosecution. What we need is an independent meta-legal system to enforce prosecutorial ethics.

That's what you need, but how do you pull it off? The reason we have settlements like the one you are so upset about is because someone powerful can exert pressure. As long as the legal system includes people said pressure can be applied.

I am very much in favor of banning plea bargains. Plea "bargains" account to nothing more than punishing people for exercising their constitutional right to a trial.

How exactly does it punish people? I'd say it's more like the even money offer in blackjack; if you have a 21 and the dealer shows an ace you can either take your chances that the dealer doesn't have blackjack, or you can take even money (due to the way the insurance bet works). So you choose between the sure outcome and the potential outcome where you can win big or do poorly.