Obama ending war in Iraq. Soldiers home for holidays.

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Re: Obama ending war in Iraq. Soldiers home for holidays.

Post by Flake »

dsheinem wrote: I couldn't agree with you more on all these points.
I just wish my grammar wasn't such a mess. That's what I get for answering political threads when I am tired and drunk.

While the suspicion that this move is being made is a wholly political one is an easy position to assume, it's important to remember that there is more to any military campaign than the President's will.

While President Obama has the final say as commander and chief, he has had that say the entirety of his presidency and could have made this decision at any time, were it so simple as scoring points at the polls for himself and the Democratic Party. The man is not a military trained leader, though. He has numerous Generals and Admirals advising him and helping him shape his military policies.

Until recently, there was divided opinion as to whether we'd accomplished the goals necessary to avoid the region descending into sectarian chaos the moment we leave. The consensus among many is that with Arab Spring still in full swing, the anger that unemployed Islamic men in many of the countries that had been supplying insurgents for battle in Iraq has been directed elsewhere: Into demonstrating, into nation building, into fighting their own governments, etc.

As democratic movements in the Middle East and Northern Africa have been causing the entire region to fluctuate, so too have levels of violence against US forces and Iraqi Security Forces dropped.

Though I will forever hold President George W. Bush in contempt, the final irony of his Presidency is that what his administration tried to do (create a wave of democratic movements in the Middle East by interfering in Iraq and Syria) has actually occurred after a fashion.

While our departure from Iraq is definitely in part politically and economically motivated, it still bears mentioning that we are withdrawing largely because there is nothing left for us to do there that the Iraqi's can't be expected to do for themselves.

...also, I believe that US troops will probably be 'invited' to the Northern Mexican states within the next three years, but that's my own theory.
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J T
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Re: Obama ending war in Iraq. Soldiers home for holidays.

Post by J T »

Luke wrote:
Inazuma wrote:Sounds like someone wants to be re-elected.
Yup. Expect to hear a lot of "I was the one who..."

And although health care and the economy is in the dumps, Obama is pretty good at picking off infamous bad guys.

I'm being flippant. Well, not totally, but it's good to hear our troops will be coming home.
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Re: Obama ending war in Iraq. Soldiers home for holidays.

Post by Sideroller »

Donuts get my vote every time.
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Re: Obama ending war in Iraq. Soldiers home for holidays.

Post by The Last Horseman »

J T wrote:
Luke wrote:
Inazuma wrote:Sounds like someone wants to be re-elected.
Yup. Expect to hear a lot of "I was the one who..."

And although health care and the economy is in the dumps, Obama is pretty good at picking off infamous bad guys.

I'm being flippant. Well, not totally, but it's good to hear our troops will be coming home.
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Except for the donuts though, Obama didn't do any of that...

I hate every time someone says "But Obama Got Osama!" , because he didn't. Someone else found him, he said it was ok to kill him, and someone else did it. He wasn't even needed in the transaction, it could have been done completely without him.
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Re: Obama ending war in Iraq. Soldiers home for holidays.

Post by Flake »

The Last Horseman wrote: I hate every time someone says "But Obama Got Osama!" , because he didn't. Someone else found him, he said it was ok to kill him, and someone else did it. He wasn't even needed in the transaction, it could have been done completely without him.
Incorrect, sir.

Deployment of special forces into a country with whom we do not have agreed upon access to for the purposes of removing / eliminating a high valued target can only be carried out on the President's order. And it's not so simple as a 'yes or no' answer and then things happen. As the President is the one who will assume responsibility if the mission fails, the President is a party to every aspect of the mission plan. President Obama was in the situation room with his military advisers, monitoring every moment of the mission. Ultimately everything was his call.

Bush Jr. had a couple of chances to kill Bin Laden but chose not to act on them, fearing that the odds of success didn't validate the risk. Prudence is necessary, at times.

The President, whoever that person is, has to use judgement, intelligence, and decisive action to recognize how likely the mission is to succeed, how valuable success would be, and if/when to pull the plug or continue on.

The elimination of Osama Bin Laden is as much a credit to President Obama's ability to function as a Commander in Chief as it is an example of what the US's special forces are capable of.
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Re: Obama ending war in Iraq. Soldiers home for holidays.

Post by Hatta »

This is actually the date set by GWB in the 2008 Status of Forces Agreement. So George Bush should be getting credit for this.
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Re: Obama ending war in Iraq. Soldiers home for holidays.

Post by Sideroller »

.... :roll:


So anyways, I'm glad our troops won't be stuck in Iraq anymore. It's kind of crazy to realize they've been over there since I was in elementary school.
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Re: Obama ending war in Iraq. Soldiers home for holidays.

Post by Luke »

J T wrote:
Image
"http://troll.me/images" ?

I'm not even going to touch the fact he chose Dunkin' over K.K donuts.

I will point out that the gallon of coffee he is carrying looks like a car battery/fog machine.
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Re: Obama ending war in Iraq. Soldiers home for holidays.

Post by MrPopo »

Luke wrote:
J T wrote:
Image
"http://troll.me/images" ?

I'm not even going to touch the fact he chose Dunkin' over K.K donuts.

I will point out that the gallon of coffee he is carrying looks like a car battery/fog machine.
Dunkin' is better than KK, but both pale compared to Top Pot.
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Re: Obama ending war in Iraq. Soldiers home for holidays.

Post by dedalusdedalus »

The Last Horseman wrote: I hate every time someone says "But Obama Got Osama!" , because he didn't. Someone else found him, he said it was ok to kill him, and someone else did it. He wasn't even needed in the transaction, it could have been done completely without him.
Greenlighting the mission to kill bin Laden is an incredibly difficult decision to make: firstly, it's nowhere near guaranteed that they would have even found/killed him; secondly there's the countervailing risk of unilaterally launching military operations in the sovereign territory of a nominal "ally."

It's nowhere near as easy as you make it sound - there were lots of leads on where bin Laden might have been, and it's impossible to commit forces to follow up on all of them. How did Bush spend his time? Right, looking for bin Laden in the Tora Bora mountain range.

So no, being president isn't as easy as playing Civilization, as you seem to be implying.
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