Anyone switching to a credit union with what's going on?

[o.pwuaioc]

First of all, let's dismiss this notion that banks are the root of all evil. Your account with whatever bank is FDIC insured. So the banks didn't take your money and gamble it away. Even if they had, they had no real reason not to since the FDIC stamp of protection essentially encourages banks to get involved in risky investments and lending.

FDIC insurance only covers up to $250,000.

Consumerism and Automation are to blame here. What the banks have done is simply react as best they could to changes in supply and demand. We have two generations who grew up with this expectation of skipping to the final boss and owning a McMansion of their own the moment they finished college. Oh, and these generations have also assumed that they were entitled to college and oh-don't-worry-about-the-cost, it'll be fine. Or the nicest clothes. Biggest weddings. Whatever. Two generations that have largely incurred massive debt before the game even got started.

While that may be true for a lot of people, it's complete and utter tripe for a lot more. Sounds like ignorant talking points unaware of actual facts.

[Flake]

FDIC insurance only covers up to $250,000.

Yeah but the safe assumption is that most people don't really have to worry about that upper limit. Certainly the "99%" are good to go under that threshold.

While that may be true for a lot of people, it's complete and utter tripe for a lot more. Sounds like ignorant talking points unaware of actual facts.

Do you enjoy being rude?

Look I am sorry if I am not defaulting to the populist stance. "Boo, Banks are Bad" is a great slogan for a bumper sticker but other than getting people together to share their misery, mindlessly placing the blame on banks is a terrible idea.

I am more interested in understanding the systemic failure of the global economy. To do that you have to find the root cause, the one factor that could change everything if it was different. I see that in jobs. I see that people need jobs. I see that jobs currently do not need people. Employment is a demand driven facet of the economy, just like prices. If things are so that employees are not needed (which is a problem the entire developed world is struggling with) then what is the solution?

I don't know the answer. All I see is how we got to the point where companies can shed jobs but still post record profits, which is the current situation. Hell, since late 2008 analysts have been calling this a "Jobless Recovery" and the entire situation has baffled everyone. There has to be something different in the job market now than the job market from previous periods of economic recovery. An examination of the work place of the 1980's and today's workplace clearly shows that automation and globalization are a force today like never before. It might not be the sole explanation for the current trend but it warrants study as a possibly complicit anomaly.

So really, "ignorant talking points"? How about you add something to the conversation?

[o.pwuaioc]

FDIC insurance only covers up to $250,000.

Yeah but the safe assumption is that most people don't really have to worry about that upper limit. Certainly the "99%" are good to go under that threshold.

Really? 99% might not make 250k per annum, but it's not at all unfeasible that they wouldn't have been, oh, I dunno, saving their whole life. If I make $50k a year, spend $25k of it, than it only takes me 10 years to get that. So a hardworking American who does this would find himself screwed if he worked, oh, I don't know, 20 years only to find a bank collapsed and he lost half his savings.

Do you enjoy being rude?

No, but I do call ignorance where I see it.

Look I am sorry if I am not defaulting to the populist stance. "Boo, Banks are Bad" is a great slogan for a bumper sticker but other than getting people together to share their misery, mindlessly placing the blame on banks is a terrible idea.

Straw man.

I am more interested in understanding the systemic failure of the global economy.

But are you really, or did you just pick up Republican talking points who've been blaming the people for what were clearly illegal and unethical banking violations? Are you going to blame rape victims for wearing short skirts, saying that the revealing clothing is the real clothing? Why don't we actually look at who's doing illegal things here instead of standing on a soapbox blaming those who did nothing wrong.

I don't know that. All I see is how we got to the point where companies can shed jobs but still post record profits, which is the current situation. Hell, since late 2008 analysts have been calling this a "Jobless Recovery" and the entire situation has baffled everyone.

It actually hasn't. Jobless recovery has been a known phenomenon since the Great Depression, and this isn't that much different. Additionally, corporations have three major things that the American people didn't get: bailouts, tax loopholes, and untaxed overseas profits.

There has to be something different in the job market now than the job market from previous periods of economic recovery.

Actually, there was a jobless recovery in the 1980s too.

[MrPopo]

I am more interested in understanding the systemic failure of the global economy.

But are you really, or did you just pick up Republican talking points who've been blaming the people for what were clearly illegal and unethical banking violations? Are you going to blame rape victims for wearing short skirts, saying that the revealing clothing is the real clothing? Why don't we actually look at who's doing illegal things here instead of standing on a soapbox blaming those who did nothing wrong.

Decrying him for using Republican talking points while you use Democratic talking points doesn't do much to help your argument. It's like a Christian trying to convince a Muslim that all the stuff in the Koran is wrong because the stuff in the Bible is right.

[equalsign]

Wells Fargo just switched the terms of my checking account. They apparently let me know by mail, but I just moved and didn't get anything from them. Charged me a fee and were totally unhelpful on the phone. As soon as I pay off my credit card with them (looking like 3 months out at this point) I'm ditching them. I can't stand that kind of crap.

What's the deal with credit unions? What are they? What's the difference between them and a bank?

[o.pwuaioc]

I am more interested in understanding the systemic failure of the global economy.

But are you really, or did you just pick up Republican talking points who've been blaming the people for what were clearly illegal and unethical banking violations? Are you going to blame rape victims for wearing short skirts, saying that the revealing clothing is the real clothing? Why don't we actually look at who's doing illegal things here instead of standing on a soapbox blaming those who did nothing wrong.

Decrying him for using Republican talking points while you use Democratic talking points doesn't do much to help your argument. It's like a Christian trying to convince a Muslim that all the stuff in the Koran is wrong because the stuff in the Bible is right.

Right, because banks actually committing crimes is a democratic talking point, not statement of fact.

[MrPopo]

But are you really, or did you just pick up Republican talking points who've been blaming the people for what were clearly illegal and unethical banking violations? Are you going to blame rape victims for wearing short skirts, saying that the revealing clothing is the real clothing? Why don't we actually look at who's doing illegal things here instead of standing on a soapbox blaming those who did nothing wrong.

Decrying him for using Republican talking points while you use Democratic talking points doesn't do much to help your argument. It's like a Christian trying to convince a Muslim that all the stuff in the Koran is wrong because the stuff in the Bible is right.

Right, because banks actually committing crimes is a democratic talking point, not statement of fact.

I still haven't seen anyone point out a specific crime, just stuff that's shitty for them to do but still legal. Hatta might have something but we need to nail it down for sure. I was going more with the rest of your points, which seem to be that business is bad and they're screwing over the little guys.

[o.pwuaioc]

I still haven't seen anyone point out a specific crime, just stuff that's shitty for them to do but still legal. Hatta might have something but we need to nail it down for sure. I was going more with the rest of your points, which seem to be that business is bad and they're screwing over the little guys.

For crimes, here's this: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... l-20110216

I thought that had been posted before.

As far as "business is bad" bit, point to me anywhere where I said that. Oh wait, you can't, because I didn't say that at all, because I don't even think that.

Try again, and this time use at least a high school reading level.

[J T]

Look I am sorry if I am not defaulting to the populist stance. "Boo, Banks are Bad" is a great slogan for a bumper sticker but other than getting people together to share their misery, mindlessly placing the blame on banks is a terrible idea.

It's not a mindless placement of blame. While you can look at rampant consumerism, globalization, and automation as all part of a larger collective economic problem (to which we should also include overpopulation and diminishing natural resources to the large list of driving forces), the fact remains that all of this didn't really come to a head recently until the Subprime Mortgage Crisis led to economic chaos.

Both the consumers and the banks are at fault for making loan agreements with each other that were destined to fail, yes, but it was the banks that did some financial gymnastics to repackage bundles of these high risk mortgage loans to use as the underlying assetts in CDOs that they would then trade on Wall Street. They created the bubble, insured themselves against its inevitable burst, and then got the tax payers to bail them out once it all fell apart. Most tax payers had no idea any of this was even happening until it was too late and then we were told that we either bail out Wall Street and the big banks, or suffer horrible economic consequences. We bailed them out and we've still seen some pretty horrible economic consequences. And we bailed them out big time. The banks took about $700 billion out of TARP, but the whole thing is estimated to have cost this country $12.2 TRILLION dollars.

I'm just gonna wait a minute for that number to sink in.

This is the USA. Where we are told teachers are greedy for thinking they deserve a pay increase above their annual $40,000 salary. Where we are told that healthcare plans like the ones they have in the rest of the civilized world are simply too costly for us. This same country somehow magically pulls $12.2 trillion dollars out of its ass to bail out Wall Street after some seriously bad gambling went down?!!

That's some bullshit. And though there are many heads on the hydra as Hatta has pointed out, I think it's pretty clear that the big banks are the biggest, blood suckingest head on the beast.

[MrPopo]

I still haven't seen anyone point out a specific crime, just stuff that's shitty for them to do but still legal. Hatta might have something but we need to nail it down for sure. I was going more with the rest of your points, which seem to be that business is bad and they're screwing over the little guys.

For crimes, here's this: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... l-20110216

I thought that had been posted before.

It hadn't. Looks like there were settlements in lieu of prosecution, which is the right of the prosecuting party and happens all the time. And if I read that right it wasn't a plea bargain so I believe if you can form a criminal case you could go after them yourself without running afoul of double jeopardy. But I'm not terribly up on the intricacies of the judicial system.

As far as "business is bad" bit, point to me anywhere where I said that. Oh wait, you can't, because I didn't say that at all, because I don't even think that.

Try again, and this time use at least a high school reading level.

You're right, I'm confusing you with other people on the forum.