Nintendo: Project Cafe - Wii U

[Flake]

Given what we know, it seems pretty on point to me...

Given what I know, people are missing the point. Nintendo hasn't created anything wacky - they really have just caught up with their competitors in terms of technology. But their competitors haven't yet caught up to Nintendo in terms of IP's. The machine only supports one WiiU controller at a time - so traditional controllers and gameplay are not out the window, just like they never were with the Wii.

It's funny - Nintendo just said 'hey everyone, we literally just solved EVERY problem you have with us. Here's HD, massive 3rd party support, a more robust online component, backwards compatibility, AND games that will draw in the 'hardcore' gamer!' and yet no one is happy about all that. Oh well.

[NeverGoBak]

Given what we know, it seems pretty on point to me...

Given what I know, people are missing the point. Nintendo hasn't created anything wacky - they really have just caught up with their competitors in terms of technology. But their competitors haven't yet caught up to Nintendo in terms of IP's. The machine only supports one WiiU controller at a time - so traditional controllers and gameplay are not out the window, just like they never were with the Wii.

It's funny - Nintendo just said 'hey everyone, we literally just solved EVERY problem you have with us. Here's HD, massive 3rd party support, a more robust online component, backwards compatibility, AND games that will draw in the 'hardcore' gamer!' and yet no one is happy about all that. Oh well.

Hilarious and true.

I have the feeling they might have been planning this very soon into the Wii's lifetime though, if not before it.

[dsheinem]

But their competitors haven't yet caught up to Nintendo in terms of IP's.

Really? Halo and Gears sell Xboxes just like Mario and Zelda sell Nintendo machines. I think Uncharted can sell Vitas, and MGS4 (not a Sony IP, obviously) certainly sold me my PS3. I actually like Sony's IPs quite a bit because the majority of them aren't yet stale, and I can be confident in new ones being introduced regularly. "Caught Up" is highly subjective...are you just talking pure sales numbers?

It's funny - Nintendo just said 'hey everyone, we literally just solved EVERY problem you have with us. Here's HD

Most people's problem with the Wii not being in HD was also tied to the issue of the graphics being dated at launch. The Wii U's graphics will be most likely also be dated at launch or soon thereafter.

massive 3rd party support

Ashcraft addresses this, and I've brought up the point as well: with the Wii, third party support was there at first but when their games didn't sell because Wii owners were only buying Nintendo IPs or buying those third party games on systems where they look better, the third parties left. It just shocks me that Nintendo is setting that up to happen all over again.

a more robust online component

We haven't seen that

backwards compatibility

This was never a "problem" with the Wii, obviously.

AND games that will draw in the 'hardcore' gamer!'

Why would I buy a game for the Wii U that I can also get on my 360 or PS3 (where I already have a friends network, trophies, etc.)? To use the giant controller or a touch screen?

and yet no one is happy about all that. Oh well.

I am not happy because I will inevitably buy this to play the games that come out for the system which appeal to me, but I'll feel like the system could have been much more. And, aside from playing the odd Nintendo IP, I'll probably stop using my Wii U once the third parties move on to the stronger hardware and start feeding the Wii U their shoddy ports (with exclusive waggle and touch screen content!).

There are plenty of Wii games I've enjoyed, and I am sure the same will be true for the Wii U. But, I have enjoyed the libraries of the PS3 and 360 MUCH more, and I see the same thing happening all over again. So it isn't that Nintendo has addressed every major problem with the Wii, it is that they are REPEATING every major problem with the Wii.

[isiolia]

BTW, while a little behind now, there was this interview with Reggie

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

Which hinted at the improved online - though no details of course. Just that they were leaving it to developers to show much of anything past the controller.

So it isn't that Nintendo has addressed every major problem with the Wii, it is that they are REPEATING every major problem with the Wii.

Yeah, my feeling as well. I would have thought that, faced with the criticism of the Wii platform, that they would have made a special point to focus on what they're doing to improve on those aspects.

[NeverGoBak]

Ashcraft addresses this, and I've brought up the point as well: with the Wii, third party support was there at first but when their games didn't sell because Wii owners were only buying Nintendo IPs or buying those third party games on systems where they look better, the third parties left. It just shocks me that Nintendo is setting that up to happen all over again.

I'm hoping the third parties don't make the same mistake this time around, it was basically their own fault, not Nintendo's. Nintendo created an environment in which third parties could thrive, yet everyone went "lol, casual gaem time!" so that the few third parties who made quality titles were overlooked after the market's shovelware saturation turned off the demographic. At least, that's the way I understand it.

We haven't seen that
It was confirmed by Ubisoft, remember? It could turn out false, but it seems the've taken tips to correct their online.

Why would I buy a game for the Wii U that I can also get on my 360 or PS3 (where I already have a friends network, trophies, etc.)? To use the giant controller or a touch screen?
If you don't have a PS3 or 360? Like many of us? One console to play both those and Nitendo IP/Other quirky titles means you're paying for a machine with both PS3-Type games and Wii-Type games.

There are plenty of Wii games I've enjoyed, and I am sure the same will be true for the Wii U. But, I have enjoyed the libraries of the PS3 and 360 MUCH more, and I see the same thing happening all over again. So it isn't that Nintendo has addressed every major problem with the Wii, it is that they are REPEATING every major problem with the Wii.

A lot of us were MUCH more happy with the Wii's lineup, and we see this as an oppurtunity to improve even more, perhaps even defeat PS2's diversity and GBA/DS(combined) seemingly never-ending sea of quality. Though that's some pretty extreme optimism

You're other points are all pretty agreeable/good.

[Flake]

@Dsh

-I'm touting the stable of IP's. Nintendo simply has more still - yeah, Zelda and Mario are getting stale. But there are so many under-utilized ones that Nintendo has waiting in the wings. I hope that the recent return to Metroid, Donkey Kong, and now Kid Icarus is a sign of things to come.

-I don't think the WiiU's in danger of having dated graphics as there really isn't anywhere for graphics to go right now. Yeah, graphics CAN be better - but the resources it requires to go past the norm right now means that only a couple of select games will be able do so. We all know that a plateau has to be hit at some point - I'm of the opinion that it may have already happened. I think Sony and Microsoft are thinking that way too - Especially Sony, what with their insistence that the PS3 was a 10 year system. Innovation will have to be found elsewhere until games with graphics beyond today's norm can be developed cost effectively.

-What is Nintendo to do? Stop making their own games? Nintendo is banking on their position of releasing a new system at least a year ahead of their competitors - they know people will buy their platform for Nintendo games. They want to provide massive 3rd party support to dissuade customers from having to go elsewhere to also get Non-Nintendo experiences. I think it's a clever (and slightly draconian) move.

-They just announced a streamlined friend system - that's already more robust than the Wii which was infantile in its approach to gaming with friends.

-Backwards Compatibility isn't a problem for Nintendo, yeah. But people were so burnt by the PS3's gimped BC that it seemed worth mentioning. Still, I'll miss the GCN BC.

-Because maybe you'll like the WiiU?

-And lastly, c'mon - again with the postmortem? I'm just going to sit here and be optimistic. I loved the Gamecube. I loved the Wii. I look at this and I see more fun to be had.

[NeverGoBak]

Oh yeah, almost forgot about the graphics thing, I've heard people say that if they keep upgrading it's probably going to hinder game development more than will help, haven't looked into myself though.

[dsheinem]

It was confirmed by Ubisoft, remember? It could turn out false, but it seems the've taken tips to correct their online.

Nothing has been confirmed. The update to that article posted above clarifies this. Besides "more robust" will be easy. Better than 360 or PS3 will be harder.

If you don't have a PS3 or 360? Like many of us? One console to play both those and Nitendo IP/Other quirky titles means you're paying for a machine with both PS3-Type games and Wii-Type games.

You are in the minority. For the demographic that's considered "hardcore" - a demographic Nintendo is clearly trying to court with the third party trailer - they do own one or both.

A lot of us were MUCH more happy with the Wii's lineup, and we see this as an oppurtunity to improve even more, perhaps even defeat PS2's diversity and GBA/DS(combined) seemingly never-ending sea of quality. Though that's some pretty extreme optimism

As I've said - there are plenty of games on the Wii I enjoy, but it felt like a third-class citizen after getting the other consoles. The Wii U is following a very similar model. Maybe that's good for Nintendo as they dominated in ales this gen, but they didn't dominate in sales to me.

[ZenErik]

Already seems to have hindered game development. And while I wasn't a fan of FFXIII, I am kind of looking forward to when games look as good or better than the cutscenes in that game. Despite my love for older games, it seems rather intriguing.

[dsheinem]

-I'm touting the stable of IP's. Nintendo simply has more still - yeah, Zelda and Mario are getting stale. But there are so many under-utilized ones that Nintendo has waiting in the wings. I hope that the recent return to Metroid, Donkey Kong, and now Kid Icarus is a sign of things to come.

I hope you are right about the older IPs, but the lack of new IPs really bugs the hell out of me. It makes them a boring developer.

I don't think the WiiU's in danger of having dated graphics as there really isn't anywhere for graphics to go right now.

Really? Have you seen stuff like Witcher 2 and Metro 2033 on PC? Skyrim and Rage PC screenshots? These games have been in development a while - and already are using engines that outpace current gen hardware considerably. Have you seen the newest demos of the latest Unreal engine build? What about innovations in 3D, which may eventually be a compelling feature to a wider audience? To say that graphics can't be or aren't going anywhere is way off.

We all know that a plateau has to be hit at some point

We do?

Sony, what with their insistence that the PS3 was a 10 year system.

That's based on lifespan for previous PSs. That doesn't mean that a new system doesn't come out 7-8 years in...

What is Nintendo to do? Stop making their own games? Nintendo is banking on their position of releasing a new system at least a year ahead of their competitors - they know people will buy their platform for Nintendo games. They want to provide massive 3rd party support to dissuade customers from having to go elsewhere to also get Non-Nintendo experiences. I think it's a clever (and slightly draconian) move.

Of course the shouldn't stop making their own games. But I don't see a new strategy for dealing with third parties. I see the Wii-strategy 2.0.

-They just announced a streamlined friend system - that's already more robust than the Wii which was infantile in its approach to gaming with friends.

I keep hearing this, but haven't seen a word from Nintendo proper, nor any details.

And lastly, c'mon - again with the postmortem? I'm just going to sit here and be optimistic. I loved the Gamecube. I loved the Wii. I look at this and I see more fun to be had.

I DO see fun to be had in the short term, but I am trying to be realistic about their strategy for the long term. Based on my personal experience with the Wii, I have no reason to be optimistic about that future.