What to do with old PS1 systems?

[Hatta]

Has anyone done a real test of audio / video quality using the RCA ports versus the a/v cable with RCA plugs? I guess there isn't really much of a scientific way to test it..

Of course there's a scientific way to test it. All you need is a device that you plug both into, and it randomizes the output. Then you listen to the random output and see if you can tell which you are listening to with a statistically significant success rate. This is generally called an "ABX" test. "A" and "B" are inputs, and "X" is the unknown output.

But I don't even have to do an ABX to tell you that there will be no difference. Audio cabling and connectors just don't matter that much. Audiophile gear is really all about self-deception.

For that matter, the idea of the Playstation being a high quality CD player is bunk. From a practical stand point, all non-malfunctioning CD players are identical as far as the human ear can tell, assuming you control for volume.

[isiolia]

Has anyone done a real test of audio / video quality using the RCA ports versus the a/v cable with RCA plugs? I guess there isn't really much of a scientific way to test it..

Of course there's a scientific way to test it. All you need is a device that you plug both into, and it randomizes the output. Then you listen to the random output and see if you can tell which you are listening to with a statistically significant success rate. This is generally called an "ABX" test. "A" and "B" are inputs, and "X" is the unknown output.

But I don't even have to do an ABX to tell you that there will be no difference. Audio cabling and connectors just don't matter that much. Audiophile gear is really all about self-deception.

For that matter, the idea of the Playstation being a high quality CD player is bunk. From a practical stand point, all non-malfunctioning CD players are identical as far as the human ear can tell, assuming you control for volume.

The reason that the 1001 (US region anyway, 1002 in EU I think) is preferred is because of the DAC it uses. Those models not only use a good DAC, but the audio output is connected relatively directly.

Obviously, some would probably value the ability to use different RCA cables more readily as well, but that alone doesn't change much.

A scientific test would be to use measurements, not by using a blind test.

While certain things (some) audiophiles fuss over are pretty much marketing. That doesn't make everything equal. Were it a matter of purely pulling the data off of a disc, then sure, outside of read errors all CD players would be equal. The difference, however, is in the DAC, assuming you aren't using an external one.

[AppleQueso]

I think the amp and speakers you use have a far more noticeable effect on the overall sound than any DAC could.

[Hatta]

A scientific test would be to use measurements, not by using a blind test.

No. Measuring the wave form will not tell you whether the differences are audible. There are going to be differences between any two pieces of hardware. They only matter if they are audible. The only way to determine that is through ABX.

The difference, however, is in the DAC, assuming you aren't using an external one.

It's easy enough to make a DAC that outperforms the human ear. Any CD player these days will have a sufficient DAC.

[isiolia]

A scientific test would be to use measurements, not by using a blind test.

No. Measuring the wave form will not tell you whether the differences are audible. There are going to be differences between any two pieces of hardware. They only matter if they are audible. The only way to determine that is through ABX.

The difference, however, is in the DAC, assuming you aren't using an external one.

It's easy enough to make a DAC that outperforms the human ear. Any CD player these days will have a sufficient DAC.

Whether differences are audible to a given individual may certainly be relevant...but it's not scientific. Hearing varies from person to person. It makes the entire process subjective. What if the listener has 50% hearing loss? Is deaf?
If the device is producing a better analog signal, then it performs better. If you can't hear the difference, then it's not worth the trouble/cost for you personally. Neither test is invalid, or absolute, but listening tests are subject to far more human error.
Plenty has been written on the subject - ironically, usually with the rationale of not buying into a lot of the audiophile hype.

DAC performance does vary though. The device is reconstructing an analog waveform from digital information. Again, this is not something that people tend to only look at in terms of $$=performance, but simply from the standpoint that not all devices are equal.

I think the amp and speakers you use have a far more noticeable effect on the overall sound than any DAC could.

It's all part of the process. A good amp/speaker combo won't sound as good if its fed a poor input signal (really, the flaws become all the more apparent). That's still a combination of factors, but the generated analog audio signal being fed into them plays a large part.


All that said, the main point was that audiophiles might look for the 1001 model (or mod a 5000 series) due to the DAC it has. Even if it's not actually that good. It's not the external cables.

[Hatta]

Whether differences are audible to a given individual may certainly be relevant...but it's not scientific.

Actually a double blinded listening test is the only scientific way to determine if there are audible differences.

Hearing varies from person to person. It makes the entire process subjective. What if the listener has 50% hearing loss? Is deaf?

If the person is 50% deaf, than your measurements are going to be even more irrelevant. A measured difference that cannot be perceived is not important.

If the device is producing a better analog signal, then it performs better. If you can't hear the difference, then it's not worth the trouble/cost for you personally.

If the difference cannot be heard by any human being, then it's good enough. "better" doesn't enter into it.

Neither test is invalid, or absolute, but listening tests are subject to far more human error. Plenty has been written on the subject - ironically, usually with the rationale of not buying into a lot of the audiophile hype.

Your mistake is in thinking that the ABX is a subjective test. It is an objective measurement of perceptibility, provided it is properly blinded, controlled, and statistically analyzed. The instrument is not the human ear, but the ABX machine and the statistical tools used in the analysis. These are not prone to subjective bias.

DAC performance does vary though. The device is reconstructing an analog waveform from digital information. Again, this is not something that people tend to only look at in terms of $$=performance, but simply from the standpoint that not all devices are equal.

Yes they vary, but the variations are not perceptible. An ADC-DAC pair cannot be ABXed from a straight through analog signal. Therefore any variations, however you want to measure them, are irrelevant.

All that said, the main point was that audiophiles might look for the 1001 model (or mod a 5000 series) due to the DAC it has. Even if it's not actually that good. It's not the external cables.

That much I'll happily agree with.

[isiolia]

Your mistake is in thinking that the ABX is a subjective test. It is an objective measurement of perceptibility, provided it is properly blinded, controlled, and statistically analyzed. The instrument is not the human ear, but the ABX machine and the statistical tools used in the analysis. These are not prone to subjective bias.

What it still doesn't give you is a definitive answer on whether or not there actually is a difference. An ABX is only a study, like you said, of whether or not the particular humans in the test can perceive a difference (or have a preference). Not whether or not there is one, which would be better determined via measurements.

[Hatta]

What it still doesn't give you is a definitive answer on whether or not there actually is a difference.

But that's not really a useful question to have an answer to. The only differences that matter are the perceptible differences.