Mortal Kombat 9

[SplashChick]

In response to SplashChick...

"Have you even played this game?" Did you even read what I posted and tried configuring the buttons like I said? I've been playing MK since 1992. HAVE YOU???

"d+BK is not uppercut" I didn't say that. I said Down X is now uppercut when you configure the buttons like I said. But on default, uppercut is set to HK when in relation to the past MK games. So by default the uppercut is set to the old High Kick button which is stupid

"Cage's forceballs were never down forward" Um, they are now?

"Sektor's teleport was never down forward" Not in MK3 but it is now

"Millena's sais were a charge move" Yes, in MK2 it was. But you held the HP button. Which is again why I say "BP is now HP"

"Reptile's acid was not back forward" Not in MK2 but it is now. Again, I was emphasizing which button was used in past MK games. But you didn't understand the point of my post.

"I'm convinced you don't play these games much" Again, I've been playing MK since 92. It's my favorite game franchise. So obviously you're the one who doesn't play these games much.

Let me just lay this out for you...

Old MK:
HP HK
BL
LP LK


Default New MK:
FP BP
BL
FK BK


So I'm saying if you change the buttons to this...

BP FK
BL
FP BK

It plays just like the old MK's with most of the characters special moves, except Liu Kang - which they totally messed up

Just try it. Play as Scorpion, Kung Lao, Cage, Sektor, Nightwolf, etc. Then if you know MK you'll see what I'm saying.

You emphasize the button but don't care that the movement is entirely different? You're nitpicking, and you're not even doing it well. This is the dumbest complaint I've seen about this game hands down. Have you played the console versions of past MK games? Some of the default button configs there are awful as well. That's why they LET YOU CHANGE THEM. What the hell are you even trying to complain about here? That the developers didn't make the DEFAULT(implies changable) button layout something that YOU personally find most comfortable? WHY HOW DARE THEY

Your complaints make no sense. You care about which button you have to push, but not what direction. You've OBVIOUSLY found a configuration you like already. You're whining to be whining, and it's annoying.

[Ivo]

You emphasize the button but don't care that the movement is entirely different? You're nitpicking, and you're not even doing it well. This is the dumbest complaint I've seen about this game hands down. Have you played the console versions of past MK games? Some of the default button configs there are awful as well. That's why they LET YOU CHANGE THEM. What the hell are you even trying to complain about here? That the developers didn't make the DEFAULT(implies changable) button layout something that YOU personally find most comfortable? WHY HOW DARE THEY

Your complaints make no sense. You care about which button you have to push, but not what direction. You've OBVIOUSLY found a configuration you like already. You're whining to be whining, and it's annoying.

You are failing to understand his complaint. It makes sense as I understand it.
Personally I don't think it was so hard to understand, but regardless there is no need to start the insulting ("dumbest" etc). I don't think you should just say anything you don't understand is dumb.

He is not complaining about the button layouts, he is complaining of the button sequences defined for some classic moves (apparently 3) and how they are simultaneously inconsistent with previous sequences used for those classic moves in previous games and with the current sequences used for nearly every other classic move in the current game. The sequences are probably unchangeable, even if the layouts can be changed.

Even without re-assigning the buttons, you can do a simple test with any of the layouts (default or not): play Scorpion and do the throw spear movement. Play Sub-Zero and do the Freeze movement. Is the button used in both movements the same? No? It should have been.
Play Kung Lao and do the Air Kick movement. Play Liu Kang and do the Flying Kick movement. Is the button used in both movements the same? No? It should have been.
Do a similar test for Liu Kang's fireball.

You can also do some other tests. Play Sub-Zero and use the button at the end of the Freeze movement without doing the sequence. Does it perform at least a punch (even if it isn't the same punch button that Scorpion uses for the Spear throw)? No? It definitively should.

Is it a minor complaint? I would say relatively minor. Is it a failure in the design of MK9, particularly given the nostalgia factor that they were trying for? In my opinion, certainly a flaw in design. Is it a valid complaint? I don't see why it isn't perfectly valid. If the last button on the freeze movement of Sub-Zero does kicks when you don't do the Freeze sequence, I will be pretty off-put whenever I'm playing it (for example, I would probably only figure out how to pull off the move by random chance).

Ivo.

[Weekend_Warrior]

Thank you, Ivo. At least someone else understands what I'm saying

I knew that Netherrealm had changed the button layout but I wasn't expecting to be so confused at first. But once I played around with a few characters then I learned that after I changed the buttons around that most of the old characters move sequences (as I remembered them) could still work similar in style to the old LP. HP, BK, HP, HK layout.

Maybe it would have made sense if FP and FK buttons were LP and LK respectively.

But for some reason FK acts like High Kick, and FK is now located where Low Punch used to be (by default)?? Very odd. I think that was the most confusing part for me. Because BK is surely Low Kick (Back + BK = Leg Sweep)

That's all I'm sayin' - I'm still enjoying the game A LOT. But only after I changed the controls around to where I think it makes the most sense as an old MK fan.

I wish NR would have just brought back the old LP, HP, BL, LK, HK config. But like I said, I think they changed the button layout around so that's similar in style to other popular fighting games - with the punch buttons on top and kicks on the bottom.

[Ivo]

From the layouts you described, my opinion on what happened: they put the punches on top and kick on bottom as default to mimic other popular fighter games layouts (this was, IMO, not the best design decision - but as Splashchick correctly noted, it is changeable so not a big deal so far).

In doing so, if you use the default layout, a small number of the moves appear to be done with the same physical sequence as they used to be (e.g. Freeze is still Down, Forward, button on the bottom left). I can sort of understand where they were coming from with if they had the logic of keeping the same physical sequence, but it is awful design in my opinion as the button on the bottom left on default is now a KICK button, not a punch button. So this is an "illogical" design decision for me.

Now to make things worse, a small number of classic moves have the same physical sequence when done together with the default layout, but all other classic moves are apparently associated with the logic equivalents to their predecessors (i.e. the High Punch is the new button used for the uppercut etc.), even if in the default layout they have changed place physically. This is IMO the "logical" design decision, although if you keep controls on default you break the move sequences that you used previously, at least "punch"/"kick" moves are performed with a punch and kick button (and the "same" one as they used to be performed with, if you differentiate based on uppercuts and sweeps).

When you change the layout to have punches on the left and kicks on the right, with the punch that does uppercut on the top and the kick that does sweep on the bottom (classic MK-style), then you recover the same physical sequence for all the "logical" moves... But screw up the physical sequence of the "illogical" ones that had preserved it when it was on default.

IMO they should have put all classic moves with the logic equivalents (best design), but if not then at least all with the same physical sequence as before under their new default layout (bad design IMO, but at least consistent). What they did was the worst, as it is extremely sloppy in using two conventions to translate moves to the new game. Can veterans of Mortal Kombat get used to this? Of course. Should they have to get used to it? I don't see why! They used a "logical" convention to convert moves for most of them, why did they not use the same convention for ALL of them?

If SF 4 had changed (or SF5 changes) so that Hadouken and Shoryuken are performed with Kick buttons, you would obviously have people upset with that... Of course veteran players would also be able to get used to it. I don't see why it is hard to understand the legitimate gripe here.

Ivo.

[pepharytheworm]

I don't see why it is hard to understand the legitimate gripe here.

Ivo.

You know this person also can't see why people like Gaurdian Hero. You can explain all you want, which you did very well, but you will likely get another defensive response.

@weekend_warrior
I was very interested in getting this game but it does bother me if the layout has changed as much as you said it did. I could get use to it, but I always hate it when fighters change the move set let alone the button placement, thank god a lot have remappable buttons. But as stated the directional sequence will still be off.

[Mendoza]

Man when i first played the demo i didnt even notice the button layout being different.

Honestly its still four attack buttons and a block button. there is a throw button now, which i like having actually, and the tag button. You can alter the assignments, so isnt the point moot.

Cage, my favorite character, still plays and feels like he always did. Sure he has a shadow flip kick now instead of the shadow uppercut, but other than that its like i slipped back into MK II.

[Weekend_Warrior]

Honestly its still four attack buttons and a block button. there is a throw button now, which i like having actually, and the tag button. You can alter the assignments, so isnt the point moot.

Almost. As I mentioned before, most of the characters have their special moves mapped correctly. But with some characters, like Liu Kang.. their moves have now been mapped to different buttons so it throws off the classic controls for that character when I try to alter them to how I feel it should be.

[Weekend_Warrior]

Man when i first played the demo i didnt even notice the button layout being different.

Then you're probably not that familiar with the pre-3D MK's.

[SplashChick]

Man when i first played the demo i didnt even notice the button layout being different.

Then you're probably not that familiar with the pre-3D MK's.

Or it's just such a small difference that it doesn't matter.

[lwcook]

Man when i first played the demo i didnt even notice the button layout being different.

Then you're probably not that familiar with the pre-3D MK's.

Or it's just such a small difference that it doesn't matter.

Also, keep in mind that the 3D MK's do exist and some moves are taken from them. Seriously, I know MK9 is a "throwback" to the 2d games, but it doesn't completely forget the 3d games existed too. If you're an MK fan, then since about MK4 you've gotten used to slight variations on how moves are performed. Yea, it sucks for a minute, but HEY you adapt.