dude, if you can't figure out how to work a mac, you are retarded . It is extremely intuitive, and every command/button/etc does exactly what it says it does .
The file structure is simple, from the standpoint of using finder .
Terminal isn't needed except for some advanced commands that MOST mac users have no need for .
But fortunately, it's included and works as expected .
need help with mac
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lordofduct
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@ Marurun
I look at it like this... you got your religion, he's go his, I'm an atheist... and I don't want nothing to do with the others. Being told I'm wrong for being atheist angers me. This becomes analogous in a world where so many people have to tell me how perfect Mac OSX is, and well I checked it out. It wasn't. (iBook G3 900mhz, MacOSX 10.4, 756MB RAM)
I work on the precept of I know "how" things work. If I don't know what is going on in the background, the foreground makes no sense to me. It's my problem solving process. Mac OSX appeared to work so hard at hiding all the technical bits from me, that playing around felt like fiddling in a world of arbitrary rules.
The PC has arbitrary rules as well, and I never believed Windows to be perfect (far from it, Vista seems to like to dump memory every few days). But the arbitrary rules tend to have a technical answer that I can get my head around. I'm not one that accepts "it fell, because things fall", I prefer, "it fell because the constant of friction of the surface it sat on could not withstand the acceleration of gravity on the size of mass the object was".
It is "user-friendly" once you know how to use it. It is not intuitive because you have to learn it. Windows isn't intuitive either, and Linux CERTAINLY isn't intuitive. And when I say fake-Unix, I didn't say fake-Unix... I said fake-Unix commands (you know, the stuff you type in terminal), which yeah, I had to go in... and I don't know why!
As for people saying I'm stupid for complaining about the parts inside being soldered down. Come on now... even if you mail it back to them you can't upgrade it. It wasn't a complaint about non-user friendliness, that's a complaint about cost. A Mac costs a LOT of money, you must admit it, it is obvious. If I don't have the freedom to keep my Mac up to date, that's just mean. And repairing, what if I bought my Mac second hand? Do I get this same "life-time warranty"? Is there really a "life-time warranty".
My rant earlier may have seem a bit more angsty and annoyed... it was 4 in the morning and I wanted to rant. I'm happy most people stayed composed about the matter. One final though though, my complaints are about the intuitive nature of Mac OSX mainly... and well:
my mother doesn't use computers. She doesn't understand computers. Never used one until a couple years ago. My Uncle gave her a Mac, she couldn't figure it out at all... yet she was able to learn Windows and BeOS much faster (the 2 operating systems they use at her new job). My mother leans towards intuitive commands, that's how she gets by. Mac did not supply that to her.
Oh and @ Marurun, yes it was the battery. To troubleshoot such and issue was a pain, and to get into the open-Firmware was even more difficult. It's a laptop, laptops go with out power at any times and can kill my little battery for storing the time. Any "regular" user can have big issues with that. I've assessed my issues with Mac, and having to turn to some technician everytime I have a little problem is crap. So yeah, I stick with PC...
I just felt the stereotypical Mac user shoves it down my throat, well it's my turn.
I look at it like this... you got your religion, he's go his, I'm an atheist... and I don't want nothing to do with the others. Being told I'm wrong for being atheist angers me. This becomes analogous in a world where so many people have to tell me how perfect Mac OSX is, and well I checked it out. It wasn't. (iBook G3 900mhz, MacOSX 10.4, 756MB RAM)
I work on the precept of I know "how" things work. If I don't know what is going on in the background, the foreground makes no sense to me. It's my problem solving process. Mac OSX appeared to work so hard at hiding all the technical bits from me, that playing around felt like fiddling in a world of arbitrary rules.
The PC has arbitrary rules as well, and I never believed Windows to be perfect (far from it, Vista seems to like to dump memory every few days). But the arbitrary rules tend to have a technical answer that I can get my head around. I'm not one that accepts "it fell, because things fall", I prefer, "it fell because the constant of friction of the surface it sat on could not withstand the acceleration of gravity on the size of mass the object was".
It is "user-friendly" once you know how to use it. It is not intuitive because you have to learn it. Windows isn't intuitive either, and Linux CERTAINLY isn't intuitive. And when I say fake-Unix, I didn't say fake-Unix... I said fake-Unix commands (you know, the stuff you type in terminal), which yeah, I had to go in... and I don't know why!
As for people saying I'm stupid for complaining about the parts inside being soldered down. Come on now... even if you mail it back to them you can't upgrade it. It wasn't a complaint about non-user friendliness, that's a complaint about cost. A Mac costs a LOT of money, you must admit it, it is obvious. If I don't have the freedom to keep my Mac up to date, that's just mean. And repairing, what if I bought my Mac second hand? Do I get this same "life-time warranty"? Is there really a "life-time warranty".
My rant earlier may have seem a bit more angsty and annoyed... it was 4 in the morning and I wanted to rant. I'm happy most people stayed composed about the matter. One final though though, my complaints are about the intuitive nature of Mac OSX mainly... and well:
my mother doesn't use computers. She doesn't understand computers. Never used one until a couple years ago. My Uncle gave her a Mac, she couldn't figure it out at all... yet she was able to learn Windows and BeOS much faster (the 2 operating systems they use at her new job). My mother leans towards intuitive commands, that's how she gets by. Mac did not supply that to her.
Oh and @ Marurun, yes it was the battery. To troubleshoot such and issue was a pain, and to get into the open-Firmware was even more difficult. It's a laptop, laptops go with out power at any times and can kill my little battery for storing the time. Any "regular" user can have big issues with that. I've assessed my issues with Mac, and having to turn to some technician everytime I have a little problem is crap. So yeah, I stick with PC...
I just felt the stereotypical Mac user shoves it down my throat, well it's my turn.
LoD, don't get me wrong. The Mac is no panacea. I've seen Steve Jobs speak live. He's an asshole :) And a lot of the more recent decisions concerning the OS X interface have rubbed me the wrong way (as in taking a step backwards). The underpinning are solid, however. Under the hood OS X is the most rock-solid, well-designed OS around. The technical me just loves geeking out over it.
And yes, Apple does try and hide a lot of the technical workings from the average Joe, but it really doesn't take much work to get under the shroud and see exactly what's going on. It helps if you know Linux or Unix. That makes figuring it out a lot easier. I can't use Linux to save my skin but I've managed to get under the hood of many an OS X box.
That said, I'm in a graduate program right now studying usability. If you look at the basics of good design, OS X does still have the edge over Windows. It was getting pretty darn tight, though, until MS released Windows Vista. That set them back a bit.
My parents were never very good with computers. My dad could only do stuff at work because he'd memorized it. I convinced my mom to buy a Mac at home, however, some years ago, and my dad can do stuff. He complains about it and insists nothing makes sense, yet he's getting stuff done he could never have on another computer without training and lots of memorization. Of course, YMMV.
And yes, I'm an unabashed Mac supported. I'm also a Windows XP user. That's what's on my desktop and it's what I've been using for about 5 years now. I've only ever used Macs at work, never at play. But it's always easier for me to slip into productivity when I'm working with a Mac.
And LoD, that's a frikkin old Mac. 10.4 barely supports the G3 and usually prefers a gig of RAM, so you're decently well below spec. Not below minimum, but we all know how well any OS gets along close to minimum. There's a lot of coding in 10.4 that requires hardware above what you're using. And Apple's old iBook (white, right?) is one of their most notoriously difficult to get into and out of. A co-worker had to replace a hard drive in one of those and he was cursing a blue streak by the time he was done. Still, my observations in varied support environs are that Mac users need helpdesk support less often. They run into problems less frequently and require help when they encounter them less frequently. 5 years of helpdesk work means I've seen and services lots of computers and users, but it's still only enough to amount to anecdotal evidence. Take it or leave it.
Which reminds me. Know why I don't have a Mac right now? Can't afford one. Graduate student and all, see... But I will have one, some day. Hopefully a pretty MacBook. Then I can use my OS X and my Windows XP depending on my mood and have the best of both worlds. Yeah, no life-time warranties on any Mac, but good quality manufacturing. It's worth the cost. It's like buying a Hyundai vs an Acura. You get what you pay for. And a lot of the time a Hyundai is damn well good enough. They both get you from point A to point B. But sometimes it's just worth it to get an Acura.
And yes, Apple does try and hide a lot of the technical workings from the average Joe, but it really doesn't take much work to get under the shroud and see exactly what's going on. It helps if you know Linux or Unix. That makes figuring it out a lot easier. I can't use Linux to save my skin but I've managed to get under the hood of many an OS X box.
That said, I'm in a graduate program right now studying usability. If you look at the basics of good design, OS X does still have the edge over Windows. It was getting pretty darn tight, though, until MS released Windows Vista. That set them back a bit.
My parents were never very good with computers. My dad could only do stuff at work because he'd memorized it. I convinced my mom to buy a Mac at home, however, some years ago, and my dad can do stuff. He complains about it and insists nothing makes sense, yet he's getting stuff done he could never have on another computer without training and lots of memorization. Of course, YMMV.
And yes, I'm an unabashed Mac supported. I'm also a Windows XP user. That's what's on my desktop and it's what I've been using for about 5 years now. I've only ever used Macs at work, never at play. But it's always easier for me to slip into productivity when I'm working with a Mac.
And LoD, that's a frikkin old Mac. 10.4 barely supports the G3 and usually prefers a gig of RAM, so you're decently well below spec. Not below minimum, but we all know how well any OS gets along close to minimum. There's a lot of coding in 10.4 that requires hardware above what you're using. And Apple's old iBook (white, right?) is one of their most notoriously difficult to get into and out of. A co-worker had to replace a hard drive in one of those and he was cursing a blue streak by the time he was done. Still, my observations in varied support environs are that Mac users need helpdesk support less often. They run into problems less frequently and require help when they encounter them less frequently. 5 years of helpdesk work means I've seen and services lots of computers and users, but it's still only enough to amount to anecdotal evidence. Take it or leave it.
Which reminds me. Know why I don't have a Mac right now? Can't afford one. Graduate student and all, see... But I will have one, some day. Hopefully a pretty MacBook. Then I can use my OS X and my Windows XP depending on my mood and have the best of both worlds. Yeah, no life-time warranties on any Mac, but good quality manufacturing. It's worth the cost. It's like buying a Hyundai vs an Acura. You get what you pay for. And a lot of the time a Hyundai is damn well good enough. They both get you from point A to point B. But sometimes it's just worth it to get an Acura.
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lordofduct
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heh, atleast you didn't say Honda vs an Acura (as they are the same car)marurun wrote:It's like buying a Hyundai vs an Acura. You get what you pay for. And a lot of the time a Hyundai is damn well good enough. They both get you from point A to point B. But sometimes it's just worth it to get an Acura.
but yeah, I bet some people do like the environment, and some people think it is good design. But for me, nope, naughta, not worth the headache. It ain't perfect so the people (not you personally) who say otherwise, this was for them. Opinion is opinion, not fact... and I stated my opinions... not as fact (except the virus thing...). I had difficulties with crap that I felt were bad choices... because I'm a technical person. So I thought it to be bullshit and ran the other way.
The fact I had older hardware only makes it run slower and clog up quicker... I forgave such factors it that was the obvious reason. Placement of features have nothing to do with resources... and for someone who knows about design, the placement of that doohicky bar thing at the bottom! WORST CHOICE! Oh and the close button as well... upper right or left good, upper left slid over about an inch isn't a quick spot to go and click. OS9 had much better design concepts... but meh, I have my complaints about 9 as well.
Man, I like OS 9, though. My family bought a dinky Mac in, oh, 1993 or so, and I owned a Mac personally (kinda, Power Computing clone, anyway) from 1996 until I finally retired it (handed it down to my parents) in 2000. It was kinda neat to see how the OS developed from System 6 with MultiFinder up through 7, 7.5, 8, 8.1, 8.6, and up through 9. Didn't advance as much as Windows 3.11 to Windows 98, but then it didn't need to.
Ah, nostalgia. Blinds us to all the stuff that sucks because the good memories are just so much better.
Ah, nostalgia. Blinds us to all the stuff that sucks because the good memories are just so much better.
Children! To each his own 
Anyways, If your iMac is a CRT model with the Bondi blue backing, its a G3 233 or 266MHz, 32 or 64MB RAM and maybe a 4 or 6GB HDD. Not a particularly powerful system at all. Go find a new system pretty quick, cause with all due respect, the iMac is worthless now. You need something with at least a 1GHz G4 to run 10.3 or 10.4 (on a cheaper system, go with 10.3, it's the fastest version of OS X if you don't need Dashboard or Spotlight)
Anyways, If your iMac is a CRT model with the Bondi blue backing, its a G3 233 or 266MHz, 32 or 64MB RAM and maybe a 4 or 6GB HDD. Not a particularly powerful system at all. Go find a new system pretty quick, cause with all due respect, the iMac is worthless now. You need something with at least a 1GHz G4 to run 10.3 or 10.4 (on a cheaper system, go with 10.3, it's the fastest version of OS X if you don't need Dashboard or Spotlight)
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lordofduct
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