What do you think of Wkileaks?

[MrPopo]

Atrocities called collateral damage: marines with low I.Q playing too much call of duty and attacking some reporters for carrying a video camera, and of course killing the civilians who tried to help them afterwards, while making fun of said civilians and reporters.

I'm going to disagree. This is not an atrocity. It's reprehensible and the soldiers should be court martialed but I really can't call it an atrocity. Similarly, Ted Bundy's killings were not atrocities. They were horrible, but they certainly weren't atrocities.

[Limewater]

It was really dumb to release information about stuff like Pakistan which can make it harder for your army.

BUT information about the army being underfunded during the afghan war is not an issue if it's released to the public.

And I'm sorry but whoever says that the info about the amount of civilians killed by NATO soldiers shouldn't have been released is a freaking NAZI/Stalin USSR supporter.

Your second two paragraphs don't really jive with the first. Information about both of those issues makes the military's job more difficult and can put soldiers' lives at risk.

[ZeroAX]

I'm going to disagree. This is not an atrocity. It's reprehensible and the soldiers should be court martialed but I really can't call it an atrocity. Similarly, Ted Bundy's killings were not atrocities. They were horrible, but they certainly weren't atrocities.

Opinions are opinions.

and Limewater how the fuck is the world knowing the army was underfunded a few years ago and that they killed civilians, going to risk the marines lifes? It's not like the local population didn't know about the second part, else there wouldn't be so much hate (since the tallibans aren't exactly what you'd call heroes, even in their own country)

[Limewater]

Opinions are opinions.

and Limewater how the fuck is the world knowing the army was underfunded a few years ago and that they killed civilians, going to risk the marines lifes? It's not like the local population didn't know about the second part, else there wouldn't be so much hate (since the tallibans aren't exactly what you'd call heroes, even in their own country)

Off the top of my head, knowledge of funding can be used in the opposition's propaganda efforts. Saying that opposition is weak is one thing. Showing documentation where the opposition admits a weakness is another.

Regarding the killing of civilians, a similar situation arises. I have no reason to believe that knowledge of the exact details of those civilians deaths was widespread, particularly beyond the local community affected. Now there is public record admitting guilt for those deaths and giving details on what happened. That removes the ambiguity and mistrust the comes naturally from the rumor mill and presents the military as villains. This can draw retaliatory attacks upon our soldiers.

[ZeroAX]

Off the top of my head, knowledge of funding can be used in the opposition's propaganda efforts. Saying that opposition is weak is one thing. Showing documentation where the opposition admits a weakness is another.

Regarding the killing of civilians, a similar situation arises. I have no reason to believe that knowledge of the exact details of those civilians deaths was widespread, particularly beyond the local community affected. Now there is public record admitting guilt for those deaths and giving details on what happened. That removes the ambiguity and mistrust the comes naturally from the rumor mill and presents the military as villains. This can draw retaliatory attacks upon our soldiers.

Oh please. Like fanatics would ever stop fighting.

But they ARE villains. They are the invading force. It's better to have a home bred dictator than a foreign one. And the truth SHOULD be out. As I said the civilians over there knew about those killings. There is no way news like that wouldn't spread like wildfire. The only difference is that now the entire world knows about them.

Try to justify the war anyway you want, but please don't use the same stupid propaganda about freeing them.


(searches for infamous pic "Democracy in a Box" which is a box with a rocket launcher and the word Democracy written on the side, but can't find it )

Trade routes would be true, but make the world hate you. Revenge kind of justifies the war in Afghanistan but your army doesn't seam to care to capture Bin Ladden any time soon.

[Limewater]

Oh please. Like fanatics would ever stop fighting.

But they ARE villains. They are the invading force. It's better to have a home bred dictator than a foreign one. And the truth SHOULD be out. As I said the civilians over there knew about those killings. There is no way news like that wouldn't spread like wildfire. The only difference is that now the entire world knows about them.

Try to justify the war anyway you want, but please don't use the same stupid propaganda about freeing them.

What makes you think I'm trying to justify the war? If you think I'm doing that, you are mistaken. I just wanted to discuss the the specific comments I quoted in my previous post.

But no, I think it's naive to assume that knowledge of the civilian deaths would "spread like wildfire." They might know that some civilians died, but not the exact situation surrounding the deaths and the exact number of casualties. Revealing this information makes NATO forces just look more brutal and evil to the locals. That puts soldiers at risk. You don't have to agree with the war effort to see this.

[Octopod]

If a foreign army occupied the US and my daughter was collateral damage you can be sure that I would be killing as many of those soldiers as possible by any means possible. That would make me a terrorist but the label that that foreign army gave me would not matter much to me. Just being there is what endangers the soldiers.

[Limewater]

If a foreign army occupied the US and my daughter was collateral damage you can be sure that I would be killing as many of those soldiers as possible by any means possible. That would make me a terrorist but the label that that foreign army gave me would not matter much to me. Just being there is what endangers the soldiers.

It doesn't sound like any amount of secrecy would keep you from killing people in that case.

But people are different. They couldn't really keep the death of your daughter from you-- you'd notice, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't want to keep the information from others who aren't directly related to the deceased.

And sure, just being over there puts soldiers' lives at risk. That does not mean one would not want to mitigate those risks whenever possible.

[Octopod]

My point really is that I think that the people that live in those countries know already. They are just trying to hide the information from us because they do not want the wars to be any more unpopular than they already are.


And really, I expect anyone with children would respond in the exact same manner.

[Limewater]

My point really is that I think that the people that live in those countries know already.

I have already addressed this issue in previous posts

They are just trying to hide the information from us because they do not want the wars to be any more unpopular than they already are.

None of us have enough information to reach that conclusion.