NHL Hockey playoff Thread

[vash23n]

As I watch the Pens implode, I suppose it's time to pick a new Cup favorite. My money's on Chicago.

Man the Flyers are tied with the Pens now! That's pretty awesome, even though the Pens are out. What a game between the Flyers and Bruins. Leighton was great, 1 minute from a two game post season shutout. That goal by Lucic was a damn good one though, he earned that one.

[skyknight]

If you said it, I wouldn't believe it, until now...

The Habs knock out the Capitals and Penguins! Doing it in 7 games while under 3-2 twice! You know this could be the redemption for messing up last year's centennial anniversary of the founding of Montreal Canadians. And I will say the Habs will be in the highlights of the NHL 09-10 season, maybe surpassing the Phoenix Coyotes as the feel good story of the year.

I am thinking that the Habs are in right moment to capture the Cup. It will be interesting to see how the Flyers/Bruins ended.

[ZenLogikos]

That feel good story will end in the Finals, if not sooner. Montreal is not that good. They have a hot goalie and one hot forward. They are getting outshot and outplayed by a wide margin. Washington's game is made for the regular season. Too many Russians trying to do everything themselves. Montreal barely beat them.

Then Pittsburgh. Cup winners with less passion than last year, tired from consecutive Finals, plus Montreal still needed a bit of luck, and Fleury did suck. Most of Pittsburgh's problems were self-inflicted. I've never seen a more talented team make more drop passes to no one, miscommunication when deciding who should retrieve the puck, ill-advised forced passes, no one in front of the net for long stretches, etc. In short, totally out-of-sync...yet still barely lost and outshot Montreal by far.

San Jose or Chicago will smoke whoever comes out of the East.

[soniklife]

Sometimes all you need is a hot goalie to make it to the finals and in some cases win. Playing in a manner that reshapes the team and more or else erases any stat from the regular season. And that is what the playoffs are about no? The regular season stats yes earn you a spot in the post season, but when it comes down to it not a single regular season stat means squat once the playoffs start. That is why every year without fail there is "underachieving" lower seed team that knocks off a higher seed.

And tired from consecutive finals? Really? That is hardly a reasonable excuse. Bottom line is they didn't want it enough and got out played. How many early goals/bad starts did Pittsburgh have in this series? How many undisciplined penalties did Pittsburgh take? How many soft goals did Marc Andre Fleury give up? How did Montreal's top defensive players banged up and all as well as a sharp, poised rookie with barely 10 NHL games experience keep Pittsburgh's top players at bay while Pittsburgh defense corps merely resemble traffic cones to Montreal's grinders? (Have you ever seen a worse game 7 performance than that of Sergei Gonchar?) And I am not even solely talking about last night's game. A "outplayed" team doesn't come back from a 3-2 series deficit to win. And I am not even a Montreal fan, just someone who loves the sport of hockey. It doesn't matter how many shots the Pens fired off, it is clear that Montreal won all the small battles and that is what playoff hockey is about-winning a bunch of small battles. You had very few players on Pittsburgh doing that. Jordan Staal and Pascal Dupuis showed flashes of that but nothing substantial. And outside of Hal Gill and Josh Gorges Montreal isn't a very big team. Especially their forwards are all on the small size physically but they all played with a lot of heart and determination. So regardless of anything you have to give credit where credit is due.

Do I think Montreal will win the Stanley Cup? Probably not, but I think if they make it San Jose or Chicago certainly can't afford to underestimate them the way clearly Washington and Pittsburgh did.

[Luke]

Sometimes all you need is a hot goalie to make it to the finals and in some cases win. Playing in a manner the reshapes the team and more or else erases any stat from the regular season. And that is what the playoffs are about no? The regular season stats yes earn you a spot in the post season, but when it comes down to it not a single regular season stat means squat once the playoffs start. That is why every year without fail there is "underachieving" lower seed team that knocks off a higher seed.

And tired from consecutive finals? Really? That is hardly a reasonable excuse. Bottom line is they didn't want it enough and got out played. How many early goals/bad starts did Pittsburgh have in this series? How many undisciplined penalties did Pittsburgh take? How many soft goals did Marc Andre Fleury give up? How did Montreal's top defensive players banged up and all as well as a sharp, poised rookie with barely 10 NHL games experience keep Pittsburgh's top players at bay while Pittsburgh defense corps merely resemble traffic cones to Montreal's grinders? (Have you ever seen a worse game 7 performance than that of Sergei Gonchar?) And I am not even talking about last night's game. A "outplayed" team doesn't come back from a 3-2 series deficit to win. And I am not even a Montreal fan, just someone who loves the sport of hockey. It doesn't matter how many shots the Pens fired off, it is clear that Montreal won all the same battles and that is what playoff hockey is about-winning a bunch of small battles. You had very few players on Pittsburgh doing that. Jordan Staal and Pascal Dupuis showed flashes of that but nothing substantial. And outside of Hal Gill and Josh Gorges Montreal isn't a very big team. Especially their forwards are all on the small size physically but they all played with a lot of heart and determination. So regardless of anything you have to give credit where credit is due.

Do I think Montreal will win the Stanley Cup? Probably not, but I think if they make it San Jose or Chicago certainly can't afford to underestimate them the way clearly Washington and Pittsburgh did.

Agree.

Never underestimate the power of momentum.

[vash23n]

I agree that being tired from successive finals is not a good excuse. There's been a whole season in between those finals and the team is made of a lot of guys in the prime of their lives. I think, if a team were to be tired from successive finals, it would be an insult rather than an excuse. These guys play hockey, that's there job, no exuses. I also can't accept the injury excuse I have been reading about a lot as Montreal was suffering as well. I think Montreal got momentum and just kept rolling. Goalies did play a part in this series as Halak has been incredibly sharp for a good part of the season and Fleury has been consistently inconsistent all season. Their confidence is the most dangerous weapon they have now. Similar for the Flyers so I can only imagine what a Conf final series would be like between these two teams.

[ZenLogikos]

I only cited fatigue as one factor, but I stand by it as it can easily affect the subsequent points I made about the passing, miscommunication, etc., especially when you consider physical as well as mental fatigue.

I suggest you go back and reread your second paragraph, soniklife. You start by saying fatigue is no excuse(which you are wrong about), then proceed to make points that can easily be attributed to fatigue. Detroit and Pittsburgh have played four MORE months of the toughest hockey(playoff) than any other team the last two years. Simply calling them professional athletes doesn't mean anything. What are most of those other players doing with their "twice as long" summers? Relaxing, staying in shape with light aerobics and weight training. Your endurance (physical and mental) is RELATIVE to what you do NORMALLY.

Did you even watch this series? Out of 21 periods of hockey, how many do you honestly think the Canadiens "won"? Being outshot means the other team has the puck. The other team is controlling play. The other team had higher time on attack. The Pens would have long stretches of dominance, were shut down by Halak, then have a lapse in judgement and Fleury lets in an easy one.

And the Pens did all that while being fatigued. That's why I'm sure SJ or Chicago will win easily, because either of those are as talented as the Pens, but are not fatigued.

Oh, and there is no such thing as momentum...except perhaps within each specific game, not game-to-game. How exactly can you claim otherwise in this instance? Pens won 1,3,5. Habs 2,4,6,7. I guess it's every other game momentum, right? Forcing two consecutive series' to 7 games? Yeah, that's some momentum... More like Fleury being STUPID and trying to play a puck behind the net while IN his crease, on his knees, then later a freak deflection off Letang in gm 4 and this series doesn't even go to gm 6. Almost all of Montreal's goals came not from hard work or dominance, but from mistakes by the tired Pens.

You have to be lucky and good to win a championship. Montreal has been lucky. That will run out.

[soniklife]

Of course fatigue is a factor, hockey is a sport and like any sport it commands that an athlete pushes their abilities and their bodies to the absolute limit. That is why you see players battling through injuries in the playoffs. And you don't think the Canadiens players weren't fatigued as an 8th seed? They were battling for playoff positioning until the last week of the season so seriously if that is your argument that is weak. Sure, Pittsburgh may have been fatigued but bottom line fatigue is a part of the game meaning that athletes need to be properly conditioned. And if you aren't well conditioned which is just as an important factor as being skilled skater or having stick handling abilities, it will lead to you being out played. So if fatigue is your under lining reason why your Penguins squad blew a 3-2 series to a 8th seed team, then it still doesn't change the fact that the Penguins were outplayed.

And yes sir, I did watch the entire series. Yeah the Penguins get a gold star for puck possession but that is just about it. Time of attack, puck possession at the end of the day does not mean squat unless you are putting pucks in the net and winning. The Penguins All Stars could've dipsy doodled and drop passed til the cows came home, which they did but it doesn't change the fact that they couldn't convert on chances (some absolute golden ones), which granted Halak had a great deal to do with in preventing, but your best players have to convert on chances when presented with the opportunity-that clearly didn't happen. Put away your homer jersey for just one minute and look at some of the basic fundamentals required for winning playoff hockey- not giving up early goals, being disciplined, tough board work as well as creating chances down low getting dirty goals, keeping the opposing team's top players at bay (Cammalleri had SEVEN goals in this series, while Gil and Jorges made Crosby and Malkin look like non factors), winning small battles, solid defensive hockey and solid goal tending- and there is no way possible you can still believe that Penguins outplayed the Canadiens and that it was just some sort of cruelty cast down from the hockey gods that they lost the series. Re-watch the series if you must but the Penguins failed in every one of those key aspects.

And of course luck is a part winning a championship. Or is it only luck when another team beats the Penguins? I am sure it was just sheer skill last year when Fleury slid over and robbed Lidstrom in the final seconds to secure a Cup win? Luck definitely didn't have a hand in that...come on.

[ZenLogikos]

Sure, Pittsburgh may have been fatigued but bottom line fatigue is a part of the game meaning that athletes need to be properly conditioned.

You simultaneously agree with me/make my point, then conveniently forget what I just told you - MOST OF THE CANADIENS HAVE PLAYED FOUR FEWER MONTHS OF HOCKEY IN THE LAST TWO YEARS. Your Canadiens are not better conditioned, they just enjoyed the benefits of not being in the Finals for two straight years.

Time of attack, puck possession at the end of the day does not mean squat unless you are putting pucks in the net and winning.

Actually, it means you outplayed the other team. Putting the puck in the net/winning simply means you outscored the other team. Two different things and not always cause/effect, as evidenced by this series, as I've pointed out multiple times.

The Penguins All Stars could've dipsy doodled and drop passed til the cows came home, which they did but it doesn't change the fact that they couldn't convert on chances (some absolute golden ones), which granted Halak had a great deal to do with in preventing, but your best players have to convert on chances when presented with the opportunity-that clearly didn't happen.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious - Montreal won the series - thanks to Halak.

Put away your homer jersey for just one minute and look at some of the basic fundamentals required for winning playoff hockey- not giving up early goals,

Oh, it's that simple? I'll be sure to tell Crosby not to allow any next year while he's in the box for a fake boarding call.

being disciplined,

Montreal had three more penalty minutes than the Pens in the series, genius.

tough board work as well as creating chances down low getting dirty goals,

What series were you watching? That is what the Pens do - board play, cycle down low, pass to the point, take a shot. Pens dominated the play, ie OUTPLAYED the Habs...the only difference is Montreal blocked/deflected shots/passes, and when they got to Halak he stopped them. Habs did much less of that. The Pens had more OPPORTUNITY for dirty goals than the Habs. How many Hab goals were dirty? I can't think of one. Most were nice Cammalleri wrist shots...shots that Fleury should have saved.

winning small battles, solid defensive hockey

So being consistently outshot and dominated in time-on-attack is your idea of winning those small battles, and playing solid defensively?

and solid goal tending

The only valid point you have...because it is the point I MADE.

- and there is no way possible you can still believe that Penguins outplayed the Canadiens and that it was just some sort of cruelty cast down from the hockey gods that they lost the series. Re-watch the series if you must but the Penguins failed in every one of those key aspects.

Hardly. You failed at making any coherent sense. Montreal has been lucky, because they have been outplayed, and have been saved by Halak. Pray it continues.

And of course luck is a part winning a championship. Or is it only luck when another team beats the Penguins? I am sure it was just sheer skill last year when Fleury slid over and robbed Lidstrom in the final seconds to secure a Cup win? Luck definitely didn't have a hand in that...come on.

To demonstrate how objective I am, and what a homer I am not:

That Fleury save was not luck...he followed the puck well and positioned himself well, and made himself as large as possible to stop Lidstrom, HOWEVER, winning the series was lucky. Detroit was the best team. The best team doesn't always win.

[Luke]

Sure, Pittsburgh may have been fatigued but bottom line fatigue is a part of the game meaning that athletes need to be properly conditioned.

You simultaneously agree with me/make my point, then conveniently forget what I just told you - MOST OF THE CANADIENS HAVE PLAYED FOUR FEWER MONTHS OF HOCKEY IN THE LAST TWO YEARS. Your Canadiens are not better conditioned, they just enjoyed the benefits of not being in the Finals for two straight years.

Time of attack, puck possession at the end of the day does not mean squat unless you are putting pucks in the net and winning.

Actually, it means you outplayed the other team. Putting the puck in the net/winning simply means you outscored the other team. Two different things and not always cause/effect, as evidenced by this series, as I've pointed out multiple times.

The Penguins All Stars could've dipsy doodled and drop passed til the cows came home, which they did but it doesn't change the fact that they couldn't convert on chances (some absolute golden ones), which granted Halak had a great deal to do with in preventing, but your best players have to convert on chances when presented with the opportunity-that clearly didn't happen.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious - Montreal won the series - thanks to Halak.

Put away your homer jersey for just one minute and look at some of the basic fundamentals required for winning playoff hockey- not giving up early goals,

Oh, it's that simple? I'll be sure to tell Crosby not to allow any next year while he's in the box for a fake boarding call.

being disciplined,

Montreal had three more penalty minutes than the Pens in the series, genius.

tough board work as well as creating chances down low getting dirty goals,

What series were you watching? That is what the Pens do - board play, cycle down low, pass to the point, take a shot. Pens dominated the play, ie OUTPLAYED the Habs...the only difference is Montreal blocked/deflected shots/passes, and when they got to Halak he stopped them. Habs did much less of that. The Pens had more OPPORTUNITY for dirty goals than the Habs. How many Hab goals were dirty? I can't think of one. Most were nice Cammalleri wrist shots...shots that Fleury should have saved.

winning small battles, solid defensive hockey

So being consistently outshot and dominated in time-on-attack is your idea of winning those small battles, and playing solid defensively?

and solid goal tending

The only valid point you have...because it is the point I MADE.

- and there is no way possible you can still believe that Penguins outplayed the Canadiens and that it was just some sort of cruelty cast down from the hockey gods that they lost the series. Re-watch the series if you must but the Penguins failed in every one of those key aspects.

Hardly. You failed at making any coherent sense. Montreal has been lucky, because they have been outplayed, and have been saved by Halak. Pray it continues.

And of course luck is a part winning a championship. Or is it only luck when another team beats the Penguins? I am sure it was just sheer skill last year when Fleury slid over and robbed Lidstrom in the final seconds to secure a Cup win? Luck definitely didn't have a hand in that...come on.

To demonstrate how objective I am, and what a homer I am not:

That Fleury save was not luck...he followed the puck well and positioned himself well, and made himself as large as possible to stop Lidstrom, HOWEVER, winning the series was lucky. Detroit was the best team. The best team doesn't always win.

The fact the Canadiens weren't in the finals last year has absolutely nothing to do with their play this year.

Winning time of possession most certainly does not mean you outplayed the opposing team. Having more sog doesn't mean you outplayed the other team either. Winning 4 out of a series means you outplayed the other team.

Halak couldn't have won the series for the Canadiens unless he was simultaneously scoring goals.
Not sure how long you've been watching hockey, but the Canadiens outplayed, out hustled, the Penguins, and displayed a superior defense.

And yes, the better team doesn't always win, but the better team always finds a way to win 4 games out of a 7 game series.