claudio wrote:I dont like the genesis emulators for dreamcast. They dont seem to run perfect, the lag time is different and frame rate suffers a little. Some games work better than others.
This is more like running a rom reader (as vbt mentioned) off the sega cd, not really a emulator. Sega genesis games run best off the original hardware, so all we need is for the roms to be read off the cd and trick the system into thinking its just a cartridge.
I dont think you would need to run off the sega cd graphix chip. Remember that there already is a way to even run off the 32x chips (sega cd 32x games) so im sure there is a way to run off the genesis chips, which im certain that some sega cd games already do.e
Why do this? Lets look into the advantages i thought of. Feel free to add to this.
1. Some people love to play the games off the original equipment like me. (i play my playsation 1 games only and a ps1, NOT a ps2 for example)
2. We can get rid of out carts and save alot of space.
3. We can appreciate our Sega CD system more than ever (like me)
4. No worrying about losing our game saves on a cartridge (since we will save on the system and then make a backup on a sega cd memory cart)
5. Portability. Nothing like bringing my Sega CDX (with my 32x attached) and having a disc of genesis games (32x games on the disc as well would be nice) already inside my CDX. Perfect for taking to friends house without bringing a box of cartridges.
6. This may help stimulate homebrew development for the Sega CD. Once this project is started, info can be shared and help stimulate the whole Sega CD homebrew scene.
7. It's just simply plain freaking cool, im sure that most everybody could agree.
8. We would be playing our Genesis games with our original 6 button genesis controllers as well. Besides imperfect emulation issues with the dreamcast, the controllers just dont seem right for those games.
9. Forget the emulators on PC's with better definition and quicker load times. I want my genesis games to be original the way it looks on a genesis. My cdx is much more portable than a xbox, plus i hate playing genesis games on a xbox or PC controller. Yeah i know you can rig stuff up, but i simply want all this to run on original equipment.
So you want someone to code a (potentially) complex assembly app for an out of date system with little documentation because you want to run your downloaded ROMs on a real system?
Buy the real games! Otherwise your whole 'original equipment' argument is pure crap. Original equipment = original carts, not a Memorex CD-R with "GENNY ROMS" written on with a red Sharpie. The fact that you mention getting rid of cartridges is just scary. I love emulation, but I love a shelf of 'real deals' even more. Your whole idea just seems like you want someone else to help with your Warez.
So you want someone to code a (potentially) complex assembly app for an out of date system with little documentation because you want to run your downloaded ROMs on a real system?
Buy the real games! Otherwise your whole 'original equipment' argument is pure crap. Original equipment = original carts, not a Memorex CD-R with "GENNY ROMS" written on with a red Sharpie. The fact that you mention getting rid of cartridges is just scary. I love emulation, but I love a shelf of 'real deals' even more. Your whole idea just seems like you want someone else to help with your Warez.
Maybe it's not Warez, you can own games and would like to play games on CD-R to avoid to damage your boxes and cartridges.
Someone has already done something like this for the TG-CD. There's a Super HuCard CD image that runs on any Super CD capably TG-16 or PC-Engine. Basically, it loads the Hucard/TurboChip data into the SuperCD storage memory and maps the memory requests. So the only thing its "emulating" is the traditional cartridge memory interface.
A more clear explanation might be... The Super System Card grants the TG-CD unit a total of 8 mbits (256 KB) of memory in which it loads data from the CD. The TG-16 can then use that memory as if it were a typical cartridge. When the game encounters a load point the TG-CD flushed the memory and loads new data from CD, at which point the game resumes and the TG-16 goes back to using that memory space as a virtual cartridge. So the Super HuCard CD houses games which are all less than 8 mbits and loads the entire game into the Super CD memory space, with a little bit of memory management code. The TG-16 then uses that "virtual HuCard" as a normal cartridge game because all of its memory calls have been mapped to the Super CD memory space.
I don't know how the Sega CD operates at a technical level, but assuming you put games on a CD that fit completely in the CD-ROM memory space and could map that memory space as "virtual cartridge", it could work without having to emulate the hardware. But I know some Genesis cartridges use memory mappers and other chips kinda like the SNES or NES, whereas only 1 or 2 HuCards are known to do so. And the Sega CD interface doesn't connect to the cartridge port, where the TG-16 requires a system card with cache memory on it to operate the CD peripheral to be inserted in the cartridge slot. So the TG-16 CD interface utilized the cartridge interface, in part, to function, and the Sega CD doesn't.
I like playing off real original equipment yes, that includes reading the roms off cd so the games run on original equipment. this isnt exactally emulation through my eyes, its just putting roms off cd. We are not emulating the hardware, we are just using a different source to store the roms. The original equipment will be reading the games that was designed for it.
anyways if you dont agree with me thats ok, your entitled to that.
to add to what "marurun" has to say about how the TG-16 says, mabye someone has to make a cartridge adapter out of old junk genesis cartridges.
if its something we have to pay for, im willing to do it and im sure many other will as well. i would pay $100 no problem (im not rich either).
i would love to store my genesis games at my grandmothers house and make more room, it would be worth it.
if people did it for the TG-16 im positive many would love the idea for the Sega-CD
EVERYBODY WHO SUPPORTS THIS IDEA PLEASE COMMENT I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU !!
Pretty much impossible to have a ROM loader, that would mean that the entire ROM you want to play has to be stored in memory and there has to be enough spare memory for whatever the game needs, perhaps it could be remotely possible to do it with some of the very small games, but even then chances would still be pretty slim.
There is a Genesis flash cart available from Tototek, but it still hasn't achieved full compatibility as far as I know.
Pullmyfinger wrote:Pretty much impossible to have a ROM loader, that would mean that the entire ROM you want to play has to be stored in memory and there has to be enough spare memory for whatever the game needs, perhaps it could be remotely possible to do it with some of the very small games, but even then chances would still be pretty slim.
There is a Genesis flash cart available from Tototek, but it still hasn't achieved full compatibility as far as I know.
we just need someone to develop a cartridge like they did with the turbo duo to store the rom off the cd.
im willing to donate to the project (well a little since im poor) and even buy the cartridge.
This is a thing that people have been screaming about for years.
Over at SX in the Sega Genesis/SCD dev and help sections one of their rules (which has been in effect for several years now) is to not even bother asking about playing Sega Genesis games via the CD-Rom of the SCD. There have been several lengthy discussions between hopeful gamers, programmers, and others on the topic (don't feel like digging for them).
The big problem is where to load the rom into for the processor to handle its information. You figure it this way, games on a genesis average 8 megabits, and climb to 32megabits (and when above 8megabits mappers are required as the CPU doesn't understand this large amount of memory). The cartridge slot is directly accessed by the motorolla 68000 (the main cpu of the genny) for playing the game. With out the memory on the cartridge there is no space anywhere on the console to store that data for access by the genny. There isn't enough memory on the console to do so... even considering the extra memory the SCD adds.
... ... the genny has 512 kilobits in RAM and the SCD adds only 6 megabits. a total of 6.5 megabits... 1.5 short of the average game. Let alone your huge games.
Now in the case of that "Sega Classics Collection"... they are kinda a port... not really a port mainly because its the same freakin' hardware. But the games had to be modified to be playable on the SCD. I'm not sure exactly how, but by looking at the disc itself, from what I can tell is that the game was broken into several small parts that are then controlled by another program. These parts are loaded into the limited amount of memory when needed, and removed when not needed. (just like most disc games).
Other issues that come in are the fact that when the genesis boots up it checks the cartridge slot. If nothing is in the cartridge slot (designated by a certain pin) it automatically boots off the expansion port. If the SCD is connected to the expansion port it loads up the bios of the SCD as if it were a game cartridge, then putting it into SCD mode. To load and run a genny game you'd need some type of storage area for the game, and a way to drop back into genny mode.
And streaming the games like in the case of Sega Classics Collection... you'd have to create a build on a game by game basis. Basically porting it, in a sense, like I said it's not porting by definition. Its just you have to change the architecture of how the system looks at the game.
...
then again no one will trust what I said. But I tell you, have fun asking any of the genny programmers/hackers out there. I guarantee they probably won't appreciate the request.
i know, because I made the same fatal mistake myself several years ago.
Last edited by lordofduct on Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
