Metroid 2 Remake AM2R Released!

[ejamer]

I've always felt disappointed with Fusion - this idea that it's "now cool to hate on the game" is bogus, because people have been bringing up the same arguments for a long time.

The game is very good - but it made a bunch of (in my opinion) gaffes that hurt my overall enjoyment. The way weapons get "unlocked" at convenient times, the chatty narrative and handholding about where to go next*, and the way different sections of the space station are so isolated and locked down for large parts of the game are just a few examples of the game feeling like it's been scaled back or dumbed down to provide an introductory experience instead of a challenging new progression.

Super Metroid is amazing because it has a sense of isolation and exploration. Instead of literally telling you what to do, for some of the more interesting powers you need to just observe and copy things from the environment. If you are particularly clever, and have some experience, then there is room to do some interesting sequence breaking as well to greatly speed up the time to completion for this game - an empowering race to the finish that I strongly identify with the idea of "good Metroidvania design". Overall, Super Metroid asks quite a bit of the players but feels suitably rewarding in return.

Fusion does away with much of that. It's still a fine action game and has lots of great design ideas - but loses some of the key DNA I expect to be present in any great Metroidvania. As a game it would still stand out as a great experience, except Metroid Zero Mission was released a year and a half later on the same platform, improving on almost every complaint that I leveled against Fusion. Zero Mission didn't sell as well and it's taken longer for people to be exposed to it - but I think time has shown it's a better design**, and that's why people now consider Fusion to be the lesser Metroid release on GBA.


* To be fair, the handholding in Zero Mission is also pretty annoying. If the only way you can prompt players to move towards the next section is by putting a flashing square on their map, then maybe you need to rethink the motivations for moving in that direction.

** The whole zero suit section at the end is up for debate here. I'm on the fence about whether that part of the game is good or bad. Although I enjoyed playing it originally, now it's my least favorite part of the game and a section I don't look forward to completing during replays.

[Exhuminator]

The whole zero suit section at the end is up for debate here.

As someone who'd beaten the original Metroid, that part in the remake came as a total surprise, and I loved it.

[MrPopo]

Exhum, play Axiom Verge if you're looking for a fantastic Metroidvania that's not Metroid or a 'vania.

[Sarge]

Are there good metroidvanias? Sure. Do any of them match the quality of Zero or Super Metroid? Not that I've played. It's a bit like saying not to complain if there are no more Zeldas because there are Zelda-alikes that are just as good as the real thing. We both know that's not true. I feel the same way about Metroid-alikes. Not that I wouldn't be glad to be proven wrong. I'm totally open to suggestions for any metroidvanias* that are on the same level of quality as the best 2D Metroids.

I think that last bit is the challenge. Even Nintendo has had trouble rebottling that lightning. Those are world-beaters, the cream of the crop, the absolute, bar none, best in the series and potentially of the genre as a whole. It's a little hard to top that!

That being said (venturing into unpopular opinion territory here), I think I like Symphony of the Night even more. It's darn close, though. I just know I replay SotN more than I do Super Metroid or Zero Mission.

Other Metroidvania games that I played that are great (and I think you've played a few as well):

Guacamelee!
Rex Rocket
Castle in the Darkness
Dust: An Elysian Tail
Shadow Complex
Shantae and the Pirate's Curse
Valdis Story: Abyssal City
Song of the Deep
Elliot Quest

I need to get to Axiom Verge, although I don't know if it can live up to the hype. Also on the list is Ori and the Blind Forest. I know there are a few others that have to be slipping my mind, and perhaps none hit the quality level you're looking for, but they're still a good time.

Also, I think Zelda-likes are far, far rarer than Metroid-likes, but that's just me.

[Exhuminator]

That being said (venturing into unpopular opinion territory here), I think I like Symphony of the Night even more.

Ah yes, now I agree, SotN is right up there with Super and Zero. That's one for sure.

The rest...

Guacamelee!
-I beat this one, it's really good. It's close to being Metroid good, but not quite.

Rex Rocket
Castle in the Darkness
Dust: An Elysian Tail
Shadow Complex
Shantae and the Pirate's Curse
Valdis Story: Abyssal City
Song of the Deep
Elliot Quest
Ori and the Blind Forest
-Haven't played any of these, so no valid opinion.

Axiom Verge
-Gonna have to play this one soon. It'll be interesting to see if it lives up to the hype.

[MrPopo]

I recently binged on a few Metroidvanias in the Games Beaten thread. Ori and the Blind Forest is more a challenge platformer with some Metroidvania aspects (like Mega Man ZX). I've heard the Definitive Edition (or whatever the rerelease was called) is a bit more Metroidvania, but the focus is still on challenge platforming rather than exploration.

[Sarge]

I would already have Ori if it were on PS4. My laptop can't run it correctly, it runs about half speed. My excuse for Axiom Verge is that I'd like a physical release, or for it to pop up on GOG.

And yeah, Guacamelee! is fantastic, although it's not quite the same as Metroid. More emphasis on combat and tricky platforming.

[Exhuminator]

I've heard solid praise for this one too:

https://www.gog.com/game/momodora_rever ... _moonlight

But there's a LOT of indie metroidvanias. My mind can't even mentally parse all of them for recollection right now.

[Sarge]

Oh, yeah, I just finished that one. A lot of fun, for sure. Certainly not Metroid-level, but it has a lot of nice touches and exudes quality well above the usual indie shlock.

See, I knew I'd forget something!

[PartridgeSenpai]

That being said (venturing into unpopular opinion territory here), I think I like Symphony of the Night even more.

Ah yes, now I agree, SotN is right up there with Super and Zero. That's one for sure.

Perhaps this isn't quite the thread for this conversation, but I've been looking for an explanation for this for a while. Why do people like SotN over the later handheld Castlevanias so much? It's a fun game, but the end game, including the final Dracula, is so easy, and at times the game makes it very unclear on where to go or what to do (I can count 3 separate occasions where I've gotten stuck because I forget the Bat Radar power even exists, let alone where to use it). Aside from just the fact that it was first of the Metroid-like Castlevanias, the only really stick-out feature to me is the huge castle (although I would say that at times it feels a little too huge and takes too long to traverse).

All of the elements like the multiple weapons and soul stealing system in Dawn of Sorrow and the tattoos in Order of Ecclesia made for much more varied and engaging gameplay to me. Personally, SotN is 5th from the top of my favorite Metroidy Castlevanias (so that list contains no actual Metroid games), with Harmony of Dissonance (because the castle design is really irritating with no warps, and the hidden Dracula is way too easy) and Circle of the Moon (because I say that a lot of the difficulty comes from how annoying the controls are) being below it respectively.

Also, you guys have super sold me on those Indie Metroidvanias. Totally gonna have to pick up Shadow Complex and Axiom Verge soon.