Together Retro December 2021 - Camelot on the Spot

[Note]

Hello Racketboy community! Thank you to Pidge for running the two polls and the coin flip to decide on December's runner-up TR theme, with the winner being Camelot on the Spot! This theme was originally in the August poll.

Camelot Software Planning started out in 1990 as Sega CD4 then quickly renamed to Sonic Software Planning and was known for the development of the Shining series. During their tenure with Sega, they released a multitude of great RPGs for the Genesis, Game Gear, Sega CD, and the Saturn. They had a brief stint working with Sony and eventually ended up as an exclusive second party developer for Nintendo, creating fun sports titles such as Mario Golf and Mario Tennis, and the Golden Sun series. Camelot has a long resume of games, spanning a few different genres and it’s great to see them still around. This month let’s delve into some of the games from this developer!

Below is the full list of games that have been developed by Camelot over the years and are eligible to be played this month:

Shining in the Darkness
Shining Force
Shining Force Gaiden
Shining Force: The Sword of Hajya
Shining Force II
Shining Force CD
Shining Force Gaiden: Final Conflict
Shining Wisdom
Beyond the Beyond
Shining the Holy Ark
Everybody's Golf
Shining Force III
Mario Golf
Mario Tennis
Golden Sun
Golden Sun: The Lost Age
Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour
Mario Golf: Advance Tour
Mario Power Tennis
We Love Golf!
Golden Sun: Dark Dawn

For this month, I'll be playing Shining the Holy Ark. I started the game earlier in the year and took a break from it after getting about halfway through. I'm going to pick up my save where I left off and hope to finish it up.

What's everyone plan on playing this month?

I hope everybody's able to either revisit a Camelot game they enjoyed years ago or discover a new game! Camelot is one of my favorite developers, so I'm excited to have their games highlighted this month and look forward to discussing their titles with the RB community. Game on!

[SpaceBooger]

Man... I have played far in Shining the Holy Ark many times and want to pick that up. I have also had Golden Sun and Beyond the Beyond since their release but never finished either of them. I love Shining Force but never put any time into Darkness and am in the middle of SF3 Scenario 2.
So... do I play Golden Sun, Being the Beyond, restart Ark (or even see if my save still exists), start Darkness, or just continue SF3 S2?
Any suggestions?

[alienjesus]

I'm already halfway through a play through of Shining The Holy Ark, so I'll be finishing that off for this month's theme.

I've been a long time fan of the Golden Sun games, but only recently have I started playing more of Camelot's games. Alongside Mario Golf and Mario Tennis on N64 in the past few years, I also played Shining in the Darkness, Shining Force and Shining Force 2 on Mega Drive in 2019 when I beat every game on the Sega Classic colllection on Switch, and they were some of my favourites in the set - way better than the 16-bit Phantasy Star games.

This year I'm working through all the localised Shining games on Sega Saturn. I finished Shining Force III in October and Shining Wisdom last month, so Shining The Holy Ark is my last one to go. If anyone knows the game, I've just recently picked up my 5th party member after the South Shrine, and my party are all around promotion level now.

If you want a nice easy game to commit to before Christmas SpaceBooger, my recommendation is to play Golden Sun 1 as it's fairly low difficulty and not too long - maybe 15 hours or so, a little longer for a first playthrough? That said, with Pidge, me and Note all playing Holy Ark, maybe you should join the club too!

Of the Shining games I've played so far, I'd say this is my tier list, although as I havent finished Holy Ark, it could change. Shining Wisdom is the only one I didn't really like though, the other 5 are all pretty great.

Shining Force 2
Shining Force 3
Shining Force
Shining in the Darkness
Shining The Holy Ark
Shining Wisdom.

[SpaceBooger]

I have beat SF1, 2 & 3 (scenario 1). I am almost done with the first part of SF CD. I think I may play Golden Sun and Holy Ark. This month. I will check to see if my save still exists, if not I will be restarting Shining and the Holy Ark.

[PartridgeSenpai]

I was debating between Shining Wisdom or Shining the Holy Ark, but then I realized I just didn't wanna un-hook-up the Switch, so I just decided to start with Shining Force 1. It's... not great ^^;. Honestly, the really inscrutable way the turn order works makes it a pretty awful strategy game in a lot of ways. I certainly appreciate the no game overs or permadeath, but if the game didn't have that it'd be suuuch a miserable time. Also things like double attacks and counters and criticals being tied to hidden arbitrary numbers is also kind a butt Xp

I'm getting through it (I just beat General Elliot, so I'm in the middle of chapter 4), but I'm a bit surprised at just how darn rough an experience SF1 is given how much of a good reputation it has.

[MrPopo]

Of the Shining Games, I have left to finish scenario 3 of SF CD, Wisdom, and Holy Ark. So I'll be looking to knock off at least one of those.

[SpaceBooger]

Loaded up my Shining and the Holy Ark save today. I was 2:45 into it and only part way through the Forest Cave (inside the tomb in the graveyard). It was early enough in the game and all of my characters are at level 7, so I will play this one off and on this month.
I also started Golden Sun for about 20 min today.
So it looks like I will be playing those two games this month.

[Note]

I'm getting through it (I just beat General Elliot, so I'm in the middle of chapter 4), but I'm a bit surprised at just how darn rough an experience SF1 is given how much of a good reputation it has.

Shining Force 1 definitely has some glaring flaws, but I think it was good for it's time. One main difference between the first Shining Force and the sequel is the chapters, and not being able to explore previous areas once you complete that chapter. Also, I remember some of the counters and double attacks from enemies being tough to deal with. I think overall the second game has a more balanced battle system and a better design in regards to exploring the environment.

Did you end up completing the game, Pidge?

[Note]

Loaded up my Shining and the Holy Ark save today. I was 2:45 into it and only part way through the Forest Cave (inside the tomb in the graveyard). It was early enough in the game and all of my characters are at level 7, so I will play this one off and on this month.
I also started Golden Sun for about 20 min today.
So it looks like I will be playing those two games this month.

Great choices! Golden Sun is a favorite of mine and I definitely think you can see a lot of influence, especially in the graphic elements from the Shining series carry over to Golden Sun.

[PartridgeSenpai]

Did you end up completing the game, Pidge?

I did! I finished Shining Force a couple days back! Only getting to posting about it here now ^^;
I'll have more detailed thoughts in my review (when I get around to it :b), but my biggest surprise was at just how rough it is (as I detailed in my last post). My opinion didn't really change much from that last post. The game's rougher elements get a bit easier to deal with as you get to chapter 6 and onward, as you just have a lot more tools to combat what you're up against, but those problems never stop being there (and they come back with a grudge to bear in the last couple levels, jfc).

It's certainly a remarkably well localized game for 1993, no question there, and in a Western gaming landscape where Fire Emblem wouldn't be around for another decade or so, it's a fair bit easier to see why Shining Force has such staying power in people's memories. The design issues also make a little more sense in the context of FE2 itself only coming out like a week before Shining Force 1 in 1992. While there are still some things (like the turn system) that are baffling in how poorly they're designed, other things like not being able to see enemy attack or move radii make more sense knowing just how relatively young the genre was compared to even 1994 when FE3 came out on the Super Famicom.

----

I also started up Shining Wisdom yesterday, and, hot damn, I think I have a new contender for the worst game I've played this year . Aside from all of the other design issues the game has, the "mash X/Y/Z to run" is the most baffling and awful design choice for a game that was released four years after Link to the Past was. Like, fellas, the book on how to make an action/adventure game like this was written years ago. What the hell is with this new obviously bad stuff? O_o

Looking up stuff about it on Wikipedia, it made a LOT of sense that it confirmed my hunch that this was a late-life Mega Drive game that was just pushed forward to be on Saturn instead. That's why it basically only uses three buttons, and basically doesn't use the shoulder buttons at all, even though it really should. It also felt good seeing other past reviewers calling out Working Designs for their arrogant horseshit even back in '96 when this came out in English. I can't stand those guys Xp