Early Immersion / Realism - Shenmue vs Fable

[racketboy]

I'm working on the Fable section of the Games That Defined The Xbox guide and was also thinking about this retro realism thread
http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... 74&start=0

I'm also reminded of a recent discussion about whether Goldeneye or Halo got console FPS "right" first.
http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... 51&t=51359

Both Shenmue and Fable had a lot of hype about immersion and realism from Yu Suzuki and Peter Molyneux respectively when they were in development.

Molyneux's promises may have been a bit heavier, but how do you think their execution of the concepts compared to each other.

Can you think of any older games that attempted the same type of thing and had success?

[CRTGAMER]

REZ
Though not very story driven and realism only at a "vector graphic" level, the game really draws me in almost as an unconscious reflex shooting while taking in the visuals, sounds and the vibration kick of the controller beating to the music. The "trance" of the game puts one in a trance.

J.T. wrote a great OP with others offering additional insight in his thread. The difference between realism and immersion of a game. Perhaps could be quoted in the published article?

Realism is only one possible route to immersion:
http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... 80#p195580

[Gunstar Green]

Well, the other thread was about realism. I sort of agree with CRT here that realism does not necessarily equal immersion and immersion is going to be a very subjective quality.

[racketboy]

Ok just so we start a bit more on my intended topic, lets focus on the use of realism for the purpose of immersion.

Rez is amazing and is indeed immersive, but it's definitely a different approach

[BogusMeatFactory]

Now this is a very interesting comparison. While, I love both games, Fable fell flat in the realm of realism and what it was trying to achieve. When you look at the features that Fable has in comparison to today's games, you would not even think twice about them being revolutionary.

The game allowed you to customize your character by putting skills points into stats that altered your character's appearance. You could earn scars by getting it and add tattoos to your character. The scars were not specifically based on where you got hit, just that you did get hit. You had labels you could put on yourself that gave NPCs different dialog when you walked by them. You could buy a home or a business, get married and have sex. Its morality system was insanely linear between good and bad decisions and meant nothing in the end because you were given a good/bad choice at the very end. I am not saying the game is bad, but the immersion was limited because the features in it were very basic versus what they planned on doing.

Shenmue is a different beast altogether. Every character you come across has a home. You can open every drawer and cabinet in your home. People have daily routines and activities. Also, who you talk to for information alters the route with which you reach the goal you are searching for. By allowing the character to pick up items and look at them, investigate paintings and pictures and remove them from walls and offer tons of unique props to see that flesh out the world, you get a sense of immersion and realism.

Shenmue gives a great example of real life in the 1980's in Japan as a culture. We see day to day items that may seem foreign to us, but are a part of Japanese culture. It also created immersion through pacing. The slower pace allowed you the opportunity to explore and take in these visual elements, as well as allowed you to talk to this wide cast of characters.

In the passport disc for Shenmue, you can unlock biographies for every npc in the game and most have compelling little side stories that you wouldn't experience in the game. They are completely unnecessary, but add a level of depth to help amplify the realism they were going for. It is this attention to detail and all the small things that make Shenmue immersive and one of the greats.


For other games that attempted to do this, let's break them down.

Omikron: The Nomad Soul attempted to create a living breathing sci-world, but came just a bit shy of accomplishing it. It's open world aspects, with huge cityscapes, traffic and pedestrians definitely gave you the scope and scale of a living breathing world, even if those elements were cardboard. There were activities and locales that weren't necessary to the plot, but were fun diversions that gave you a sense of the world's culture. Plus, all the characters you could possess that had their own little biographies and homes that you could explore added to some interesting aspects as well. The problem with the game was that it was trying to create this huge world, but the tech was not there yet to give it the attention it deserved and boiled down to basic repetitive elements. They had a basic fighting game, a basic FPS and a basic adventure game all packaged up that it seemed to be just too ambitious for it's own good.

I will talk about this until the day I die, but URU: Ages beyond Myst... or Myst Online: Uru Live, or really Myst, Riven, URU and Myst V are some of the greatest world building you will ever see in a video....period.

There is a rich level of detail and history to this world that is tolkien-esque in nature. There is a written and spoken language that is completely unique. The D'ni use a base 25 math system.... have their own cultural rituals, holidays and belief systems. There is an encyclopedic level of detail involved in the worlds they crafted that you can not help but be amazed. Creatures, climates, machinery, all of which are brilliantly designed and feel like they belong in the world all bring an intense level of immersion. Again, when talking about what makes it immersive, much like with shenmue, it is all about the little things.

In URU, when you see a crack along the ground in the city of D'ni, that crack tells a story. You can follow that crack, see the rubble and instability of what was left of this long dead city. You can look far below into their underground lake and see remnants of the platform you currently are standing on that decayed and collapsed. Maps that detail worlds you visit...and places within that world that you do not, but were meant to before the game shut down for good. There were stories as yet untold that you can piece together from what you have available to you now and that adds to the intrigue.

In URU, there are characters in the game that were human translators of D'ni text. Each person had a unique style as to how they translated text and there are instances where you will see two of the same texts translated by two different people and how different their interpretation is. Why do this? To what end? The answer is simple and that is to create a real feeling world and let me say... they succeeded.

[racketboy]

Wow -- awesome reply!
Thanks so much! This was exactly what I was hoping for