Sonic 3 saves work, but Sonic 3 & Knuckles doesn't

[raygank]

I finally decided to try to complete the game that most defined my childhood, Sonic 3. I re-acquired a system and the two games (Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles, and got down to business. However, I'm having an issue with saves.

Sonic 3 has battery backed saves, and those are working fine. When I pop that game in on its own I can see the original owner's save games, delete them, and create new ones of my own. It's working as expected.

Sonic & Knuckles doesn't have a save feature on its own, but when locked on with Sonic 3, it is supposed to use that game's save feature. But nothing is saving. When I pop Sonic 3 in to my copy of Sonic & Knuckles, all the save slots show as empty and nothing is saving to them when I complete zones. I can play the game just fine, but as soon as I reset or power it off, zap.

I've tried cleaning cartridge connector as well as I can, but I'm not sure what else might be going wrong. Does Sonic 3 have a separate save battery for Sonic & Knuckles saves or something?

[ninjainspandex]

Can Sonic and Knuckles save on it's own? If I recall the sonic and knuckles doesn't use a volatile save ram that uses a battery, but it's save function stops working after a certain number of writes. I'll try to find where I read that, been a couple years

[raygank]

I have read that Sonic and knuckles lacks a save function entirely, battery or otherwise.

EDIT: I just discovered that if I pull Sonic 3 about 1mm out of the Sonic & Knuckes cartridge connector and reset the system, the saves appear and I'm able to create and load save games! So I guess it's an issue with the pins in the Sonic & Knuckles top connector.

Touch it even slightly though, and *zap.* Anybody know what the safest way to clean those connectors is?

[ninjainspandex]

I have read that Sonic and knuckles lacks a save function entirely, battery or otherwise.

EDIT: I just discovered that if I pull Sonic 3 about 1mm out of the Sonic & Knuckes cartridge connector and reset the system, the saves appear and I'm able to create and load save games! So I guess it's an issue with the pins in the Sonic & Knuckles top connector.

Touch it even slightly though, and *zap.* Anybody know what the safest way to clean those connectors is?

try cleaning the pins, sounds like a bit of it might be dirty or corroded

Turns out that it is Sonic 3 that uses FRAM and has limited uses, http://forum.digitpress.com/forum/showt ... esn-t-save

[Xeogred]

Always wondered, what was it that made the SNES have far more games that could store save files? It was a rarity among NES/Genesis games.

[raygank]

I imagine it was a cost cutting thing. Those batteries and FRAM chips weren't cheap! I remember this being a HUGE frustration for me as a kid, because I was much worse at games than I am today. Starting over each time was brutal.

[MrPopo]

It's entirely a cost thing. Having saves requires a battery and another chip to store the save. You ended up seeing saves for games that require too much data to represent in a password; RPGs and the like.

[flojocabron]

on a similar thing.....

If you ever find any games already saved up on a cart, dont erase them.

They may show up differently when attached to Sonic 3.

There may already be a completed game on one of these saves. That's if you care about having one of those.

They dont exactly show up until both carts are connected.

And finally, watch out for Carnival Night Zone. There's some annoying gameplay at work in that level. I still hate to this day those spinning barrels.

I couldn't figure out how to get past them. I reset in anger too many times when I got stuck in the same spot.

Now you simply have to press up and down repeatedly to get the barrel to move and you time it right and jump off.

Stupid design.

Good luck with the complete pass through of all the game!

I should try this too.

[Ziggy]

It's entirely a cost thing. Having saves requires a battery and another chip to store the save. You ended up seeing saves for games that require too much data to represent in a password; RPGs and the like.

SRAM with batteries is one thing. Non-volatile RAM is even more expensive. Even till this day, when memory is dirt cheap, NVRAM is still like 2-5 times the cost of its SRAM equivalent. And RAMTRON (used in the Sonic 3 cart) is an expensive brand.

EDIT: I just discovered that if I pull Sonic 3 about 1mm out of the Sonic & Knuckes cartridge connector and reset the system, the saves appear and I'm able to create and load save games! So I guess it's an issue with the pins in the Sonic & Knuckles top connector.

Touch it even slightly though, and *zap.* Anybody know what the safest way to clean those connectors is?

Clean the top of the S&K cart the same way you'd clean the console's cart slot. Also, examine the pins and see if it looks like they took any abuse.

[raygank]

Things are looking up! As long as I wiggle it a bit when getting started and don't bump it, the save feature is working just fine.

Tonight I played all the way through the six Sonic 3 stages of Sonic 3 & Knuckles (as Sonic of course!) and made it to the second stage of Sonic & Knuckles! I'm having a MUCH easier time than I did as a kid. Isn't it interesting to come back to something that was once really hard for you and find it much easier?