I'm not half as cultured as many of the people here when it comes to gaming -- I tend to stick to what I know (SNES). So I figure maybe I'm missing something when it comes to N64 and someone can help me understand how the classics on that system are worth playing today.
Because I don't think they are. To me early 3D stuff has aged terribly, worse than any other 90s system. Not just because of how it looks, but the overall feel of the controls, and the awkward camera work (for lack of a better term) and wide open spaces that seemingly permeate every single game. Classics like Goldeneye are 100% nostalgia for me. Playing the game now, the controls really feel outdated and clunky. Even Ocarina of Time, there's so much empty space that the game can't hold my interest for very long.
Really the only N64 games I'm even halfway interested in playing today are Conker's Bad Fur Day and Mario Kart 64. I'd love to have my mind changed on this though. Am I missing out?
N64 and how it holds up today
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BogusMeatFactory
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Re: N64 and how it holds up today
I think that you are missing out still, although you do have VERY valid points. A lot of games had horrible controls, a finnicky and unresponsive camera and an amateur story during the 32/64-bit era. With the Nintendo 64, there are still gems to be had that provide an engaging and entertaining experience still to this day.
The Banjo Kazooie series is still an incredibly solid experience. The camera rarely gives you trouble and the controls are tight and responsive. Both games in the series are worth playing still.
I would also recommend Mischief Makers, a 2D side-scroller beat-em-up with a unique control and combat system. It is really REALLY weird, but plays very well.
If Goldeneye doesn't fit your desires, try Perfect Dark. The key thing is to try and not play the game like a modern FPS. The controls are different, yes, but they are not ineffective as long as you understand how everything works. Trust the autoaim. The game has a fun story, varied gameplay and a great plethora of weapons, plus the multi-player is infinitely more fun than golden-eye.
If you want more of a Mario Kart feel, do Diddy Kong Racing. That game is very challenging and plays incredibly well. It still stands the test of time.
Star Fox 64 still plays amazing and is honestly the best in the series, still to this day.
If you are in the need for a more developed story and an RPG world, do Paper Mario, one of the few successful RPGs for the system.
These are just a few, but trust me there are more. Don't totally disregard the system as I still feel it has a lot to offer. This is not a nostalgic look back, this is coming from a, "Played recently to see if it still stands the test of time," viewpoint.
But still...conker's bad fur day, mario kart 64.....both awesome as well!
The Banjo Kazooie series is still an incredibly solid experience. The camera rarely gives you trouble and the controls are tight and responsive. Both games in the series are worth playing still.
I would also recommend Mischief Makers, a 2D side-scroller beat-em-up with a unique control and combat system. It is really REALLY weird, but plays very well.
If Goldeneye doesn't fit your desires, try Perfect Dark. The key thing is to try and not play the game like a modern FPS. The controls are different, yes, but they are not ineffective as long as you understand how everything works. Trust the autoaim. The game has a fun story, varied gameplay and a great plethora of weapons, plus the multi-player is infinitely more fun than golden-eye.
If you want more of a Mario Kart feel, do Diddy Kong Racing. That game is very challenging and plays incredibly well. It still stands the test of time.
Star Fox 64 still plays amazing and is honestly the best in the series, still to this day.
If you are in the need for a more developed story and an RPG world, do Paper Mario, one of the few successful RPGs for the system.
These are just a few, but trust me there are more. Don't totally disregard the system as I still feel it has a lot to offer. This is not a nostalgic look back, this is coming from a, "Played recently to see if it still stands the test of time," viewpoint.
But still...conker's bad fur day, mario kart 64.....both awesome as well!
Ack wrote:I don't know, chief, the haunting feeling of lust I feel whenever I look at your avatar makes me think it's real.
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Re: N64 and how it holds up today
Do you feel this way about early 3D in general, or specifically N64 games?
Early 3D is a weird time for gaming. There's a lot of experimentation with game design, presentation, and control. Some of it is very hit or miss, and there are quite a few games I consider "classic" from the era that I find nigh unplayable nowadays. While I don't suggest writing off the entire generation, there are certain games or genres that you might consider avoiding just because the formulas and ideas that they presented at the time have fallen off in use. And in terms of these ideas, the N64 stands out for what was an innovative but unusual controller design that has been built upon but left in the dust. Because as great as the influence it had during that era and with future controller designs, the single analog stick design effectively died with the Dreamcast.
Now, based on what you are saying, your criticism seems leveled at the sparse design of the worlds that were created. Here are a few things to keep in mind from a genre perspective:
First Person Shooters - When I mentioned games I love that I now consider unplayable on the N64, this genre springs first to mind, specifically the Turok series. While the genre fares better and becomes more graphically complex, this generation is still hampered by the single analog stick design of its controller. Yes, the N64 allowed for the rise of the console FPS, but nowadays it is defined by the dual analog stick controller, so going back to these older titles can be more than a little difficult. If you dislike GoldenEye, then there's little reason to return here(though I still think there are some excellent games in this category).
Fighting games - I know, there's not many folks who think of fighters on the N64. But some of these games are particularly atrocious just because they didn't understand how to handle 3D gameplay. Examples like War Gods reveal this lack of experience and ongoing experimentation, and games like Fighter's Destiny play with style but don't really have a modern equivalent and can come across as entirely alien. That said, there are some 2D fighters which might interest you, such as Mortal Kombat Trilogy or Killer Instinct Gold, which uses a 3D stage design but is still 2D gameplay. And most folks will recommend Super Smash Bros., though I find the speed clunky in the N64 game at this point.
RPGs - There aren't many on the console, and of those, Paper Mario is likely your best bet. Quest 64 and Aidyn Chronicles both suffer from their sparse designs. Ogre Battle 64 may interest you, but I recommend a lot of research before tracking it down to ensure it suits you.
Platformers - You mentioned Conker, which is from the end of the generation. I'd suggest looking at other titles that come out later in the N64's lifespan, particularly the Banjo series(particularly the sequel). Super Mario 64 is THE start of 3D platforming, so I would take a look at it just to see if it interests you. If you find it appealing, great, here's a genre to explore. If not, then check out both Banjo games and see how you feel about them.
Racing - Racing games like Mario Kart 64 don't suffer from the sparse world problem because their set on simple tracks. You might consider other racers, like Waverace 64, to see if the earlier entries appeal to you. Star Wars Episode 1 Racer is another great choice for looking at racing games on the N64, and reflect a bit on whether Excitebike 64, Beetle Adventure Racing, Diddy Kong Racing, and others interest you at all.
Wrestling - This genre does a lot better than the fighting games do, and there was a lot of creativity with design for these. I say look into them, as they offer a lot of variety and solid gameplay, even if you don't care for wrestling or know the characters involved.
Sports - I'm separating this one from wrestling to specifically focus on it, but there are a lot of really good sports games on the N64, ranging from the likes of Mario Tennis to Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3. I'm partial to NFL Blitz for its brutality, though there are other choices. That said, there's also more mediocre titles, like NHL Blades of Steel '99. It really comes down to taste.
Survival Horror - This genre is small on the N64, and it basically comes down to whether you like the way Resident Evil 2 plays. That said, this version also features improved graphics, improved sound quality and surround sound, new options(including alternate control styles), and a lot of new content and modes to try out.
Puzzle - Dr. Mario 64, Pokemon Puzzle League, two Bust-A-Moves, numerous Tetris revisions, Wetrex, we're done here.
Action/Adventure - Do games like Shadows of the Empire, Bomberman 64, or Jet Force Gemini appeal to you? This may be another case where the initial releases don't interest you, but the genre improves over the lifespan of the console. You mentioned Ocarina of Time, but what about Majora's Mask?
Real Time Strategy - Hahaha no.
I'm not going to get into things like edutainment, party games, or board games, though they do appear on the console. Third Person Shooters I suggest examining the same way you do the platformers and action/adventure titles, on a case by case basis with a heavier emphasis on the end of the generation.
Early 3D is a weird time for gaming. There's a lot of experimentation with game design, presentation, and control. Some of it is very hit or miss, and there are quite a few games I consider "classic" from the era that I find nigh unplayable nowadays. While I don't suggest writing off the entire generation, there are certain games or genres that you might consider avoiding just because the formulas and ideas that they presented at the time have fallen off in use. And in terms of these ideas, the N64 stands out for what was an innovative but unusual controller design that has been built upon but left in the dust. Because as great as the influence it had during that era and with future controller designs, the single analog stick design effectively died with the Dreamcast.
Now, based on what you are saying, your criticism seems leveled at the sparse design of the worlds that were created. Here are a few things to keep in mind from a genre perspective:
First Person Shooters - When I mentioned games I love that I now consider unplayable on the N64, this genre springs first to mind, specifically the Turok series. While the genre fares better and becomes more graphically complex, this generation is still hampered by the single analog stick design of its controller. Yes, the N64 allowed for the rise of the console FPS, but nowadays it is defined by the dual analog stick controller, so going back to these older titles can be more than a little difficult. If you dislike GoldenEye, then there's little reason to return here(though I still think there are some excellent games in this category).
Fighting games - I know, there's not many folks who think of fighters on the N64. But some of these games are particularly atrocious just because they didn't understand how to handle 3D gameplay. Examples like War Gods reveal this lack of experience and ongoing experimentation, and games like Fighter's Destiny play with style but don't really have a modern equivalent and can come across as entirely alien. That said, there are some 2D fighters which might interest you, such as Mortal Kombat Trilogy or Killer Instinct Gold, which uses a 3D stage design but is still 2D gameplay. And most folks will recommend Super Smash Bros., though I find the speed clunky in the N64 game at this point.
RPGs - There aren't many on the console, and of those, Paper Mario is likely your best bet. Quest 64 and Aidyn Chronicles both suffer from their sparse designs. Ogre Battle 64 may interest you, but I recommend a lot of research before tracking it down to ensure it suits you.
Platformers - You mentioned Conker, which is from the end of the generation. I'd suggest looking at other titles that come out later in the N64's lifespan, particularly the Banjo series(particularly the sequel). Super Mario 64 is THE start of 3D platforming, so I would take a look at it just to see if it interests you. If you find it appealing, great, here's a genre to explore. If not, then check out both Banjo games and see how you feel about them.
Racing - Racing games like Mario Kart 64 don't suffer from the sparse world problem because their set on simple tracks. You might consider other racers, like Waverace 64, to see if the earlier entries appeal to you. Star Wars Episode 1 Racer is another great choice for looking at racing games on the N64, and reflect a bit on whether Excitebike 64, Beetle Adventure Racing, Diddy Kong Racing, and others interest you at all.
Wrestling - This genre does a lot better than the fighting games do, and there was a lot of creativity with design for these. I say look into them, as they offer a lot of variety and solid gameplay, even if you don't care for wrestling or know the characters involved.
Sports - I'm separating this one from wrestling to specifically focus on it, but there are a lot of really good sports games on the N64, ranging from the likes of Mario Tennis to Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3. I'm partial to NFL Blitz for its brutality, though there are other choices. That said, there's also more mediocre titles, like NHL Blades of Steel '99. It really comes down to taste.
Survival Horror - This genre is small on the N64, and it basically comes down to whether you like the way Resident Evil 2 plays. That said, this version also features improved graphics, improved sound quality and surround sound, new options(including alternate control styles), and a lot of new content and modes to try out.
Puzzle - Dr. Mario 64, Pokemon Puzzle League, two Bust-A-Moves, numerous Tetris revisions, Wetrex, we're done here.
Action/Adventure - Do games like Shadows of the Empire, Bomberman 64, or Jet Force Gemini appeal to you? This may be another case where the initial releases don't interest you, but the genre improves over the lifespan of the console. You mentioned Ocarina of Time, but what about Majora's Mask?
Real Time Strategy - Hahaha no.
I'm not going to get into things like edutainment, party games, or board games, though they do appear on the console. Third Person Shooters I suggest examining the same way you do the platformers and action/adventure titles, on a case by case basis with a heavier emphasis on the end of the generation.
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BoringSupreez
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Re: N64 and how it holds up today
I can't really deny that the N64 era hasn't aged well, at least in the graphics department. I'm sure nostalgia plays an important role in the minds of those who still love the PS1 and N64. The fact that I can't really put my finger on what makes those muddy, blocky, outdated games from '99-'01 so special in my eyes testifies to that.
At the same time, what games like Ocarina of Time, Mario 64, and Goldeneye did for the industry is undeniable and things wouldn't be the same today were it not for them. Even if they don't hold up terrifically anymore I think they deserve a little slack.
At the same time, what games like Ocarina of Time, Mario 64, and Goldeneye did for the industry is undeniable and things wouldn't be the same today were it not for them. Even if they don't hold up terrifically anymore I think they deserve a little slack.
prfsnl_gmr wrote:There is nothing feigned about it. What I wrote is a display of actual moral superiority.
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BoneSnapDeez
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Re: N64 and how it holds up today
There is an element of clunkiness to nearly every single game from generation "4.5" and 5. The transition from 2D to 3D wasn't a smooth one. And the N64 controller is really strange, to say the least.
That said, there are tons of great games on the system. The Nintendo-brand games (Mario, Zelda, Kirby) are excellent. The Rare line-up is also great and includes two of the best console FPS titles of all time. There's also a strong library of exclusives.
I don't know how strong your Japanese skills are, but the N64 import library is very strong and rarely talked about. Look into Tetris 64, Wonder Project J2, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Getter Love!!, and Sin & Punishment.
Games I keep coming back to: Jet Force Gemini, Mischief Makers, Ogre Battle 64, Hybrid Heaven, WinBack: Covert Operations, Waialae Country Club.
That said, there are tons of great games on the system. The Nintendo-brand games (Mario, Zelda, Kirby) are excellent. The Rare line-up is also great and includes two of the best console FPS titles of all time. There's also a strong library of exclusives.
I don't know how strong your Japanese skills are, but the N64 import library is very strong and rarely talked about. Look into Tetris 64, Wonder Project J2, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Getter Love!!, and Sin & Punishment.
Games I keep coming back to: Jet Force Gemini, Mischief Makers, Ogre Battle 64, Hybrid Heaven, WinBack: Covert Operations, Waialae Country Club.
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alienjesus
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Re: N64 and how it holds up today
I'll be that guy who disagrees then. This is one of my favourite eras of gaming, I feel that the graphics may not have held up, but most of the games anyone remembers from the era control well, are a ton of fun, and still hold up well til today.
Re: N64 and how it holds up today
BogusMeatFactory wrote:I would also recommend Mischief Makers, a 2D side-scroller beat-em-up with a unique control and combat system. It is really REALLY weird, but plays very well.
Never heard of this one, watching gameplay footage now, looks like fun
BogusMeatFactory wrote:Star Fox 64 still plays amazing and is honestly the best in the series, still to this day.
Forgot about this one, Star Fox 64 is definitely quality, as is the 3DS remake.
BogusMeatFactory wrote:These are just a few, but trust me there are more. Don't totally disregard the system as I still feel it has a lot to offer. This is not a nostalgic look back, this is coming from a, "Played recently to see if it still stands the test of time," viewpoint.
Thanks, much appreciated!
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BogusMeatFactory
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Re: N64 and how it holds up today
SNESdrunk wrote:
Thanks, much appreciated!
Hey it is my pleasure, and listen to Ack there...his words are wise beyond years! .....cue mysterious outro music.
Ack wrote:I don't know, chief, the haunting feeling of lust I feel whenever I look at your avatar makes me think it's real.
-I am the idiot that likes to have fun and be happy.
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sevin0seven
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Re: N64 and how it holds up today
Ack wrote:Real Time Strategy - Hahaha no.
StarCraft 64, Command & Conquer and Battlezone Rise of the Black Dogs?
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Re: N64 and how it holds up today
sevin0seven wrote:Ack wrote:Real Time Strategy - Hahaha no.
StarCraft 64, Command & Conquer and Battlezone Rise of the Black Dogs?
And I find all three poor and problematic. Starcraft and C&C I prefer on PC. I dislike the controls for each of these and absolutely despise split-screen multiplayer in a genre like this.