Modern game music

Post by **Menegrothx** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:58 am

Post by **BoneSnapDeez** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:48 am

I was thinking about this while playing Ys I & II last month for Together Retro. The music is simply stunning and nothing today sounds remotely like it. I'm not familiar enough with video game history to tell exactly when (or why) game music started to go downhill. I think perhaps some modern composers feel that "beep-boop game music" is antiquated and has no place in the modern world, but I would argue that "real music" sounds awkward and unfitting for video games.

As you alluded to, most modern games with great music are either rehashes of old series or "old school" in style. I really liked the music of Radiant Historia, it sounds modern in terms of clarity/instrumentation but still has that classic bombastic JRPG feel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHNXHWUH ... ure=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA8j0pB9 ... ure=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWPr42nq ... ure=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpqw8gwC ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZF-YQ8D ... ure=relmfu

HLTB · Post by **Xeogred** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:18 am

I think if you look at the movie industry, it's the same deal really. It's just the modern age in general.

Simply put I think modern composers don't know how to write melody and "themes", in both movies and videogames. There are obviously exceptions, but a large majority of new games I play today I walk away from not remembering or caring about the OST's at all.

I think Japan emphasis melody a lot more in general though, in their movies, anime, videogames, and everything. And so with them having taken the backseat thesedays with more Western developers taking over, that also probably comes into play. Different outlooks on music I guess.

Then again I guess that's true and not true, since most PC games from the 90's have absolutely amazing OST's. Unreal, Deus Ex, Half-Life, Thief, Fallout, Starcraft, Diablo, etc it goes on and on. Trackers and limitations brought out the awesome I guess.

Currently I'd have to say Skyward Sword's OST really has my attention. A lot of it honestly reminds me of Secret of Mana, I don't think there's any other game out there that's given me such a vibe. Secret of Mana being one of the best OST's in universe, I'd say this is an awesome comparison to have!

Post by **Zing** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:58 am

Look up the Skylanders soundtrack on iTunes for an example of true modern video game music. Hans Zimmer composed a main theme, and each of the other tracks arranged by Lorne Balfe were based off of this theme and have a consistent feel. It is great music that fits the game perfectly.

I, too, am disappointed by every game soundtrack now sounding like a generic movie score or pop music. I still recall my incredulous feeling when I first heard Madden 2001 on my friend's computer and the title screen music was a rap song.

HLTB · Post by **Xeogred** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:03 am

The funny thing is I blame Hans Zimmer for the current trends in movie composing... loud bass and just general boringness, too many people try to copy his style too. I think he did good on The Last Samurai and some others, but he's no Jerry Goldsmith, Danny Elfman, Basil Poledouris, etc.

Post by **BoneSnapDeez** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:25 am

Xeogred wrote:I think Japan emphasis melody a lot more in general though, in their movies, anime, videogames, and everything. And so with them having taken the backseat thesedays with more Western developers taking over, that also probably comes into play. Different outlooks on music I guess.

Then again I guess that's true and not true, since most PC games from the 90's have absolutely amazing OST's. Unreal, Deus Ex, Half-Life, Thief, Fallout, Starcraft, Diablo, etc it goes on and on. Trackers and limitations brought out the awesome I guess.

Haha I actually wrote something similar in my first post, but then deleted it because I couldn't figure out how to say it without sounding contradictory.

But yeah, Western video game soundtracks have really taken a hit this past decade or so. I can still find Japanese games that sound great (I mentioned Radiant Historia above) but can't think of any notable recent Western soundtracks. And though I've always preferred the Japanese soundtracks I absolutely adore the "dungeon synth" MIDI tracks of the old D&D DOS games. Lemmings had an amazing soundtrack too, as well as a bunch of others I'm sure I'm forgetting.

I'm not entirely sure what Hans Zimmer's work sounds like, but I think a lot of newer (mainly Western) games are supposed to have some sort of subtle, ambient soundtrack. There's an effective way to do this for sure (Secret of Evermore), but generally I find this type of OST to be completely nondescript and boring.

Post by **J T** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:10 am

This is the price we pay for voice acting. The older generation of games had to have good soundtracks because there was nothing else to listen to and without a good soundtrack, the game felt monotonous, so they got really adventurous with melody and harmony. Once you add voice actors into the mix though, there is too much noise at once to have a strongly melody driven soundtrack while people are talking. It just sounds jumbled. So, like movies, video games have taken to producing more ambient music. Occassionally action sequences will have something with a bit more dynamic flair, but much of the soundtrack is just wallpaper music: it adds a little color to the background, but it's not the focus.

Post by **Erik_Twice** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:38 am

There are many trends in gaming right now, but this is probably the less debatable. The Hans Zimmer comment is astute, it truly seems he is the most important influence, for good or bad.

The decline started in the early 2000, with games using licensed sountracks. It has gone downhill from here. I'm not sure of why this happened but probably because as music budgets got higher and higher, the creative control of single composers over their soundtracks started shrinking. And everything sounds like movies because the composers are now being taken from movies instead of other fields.

This means less metal, less techno and less classical music. We will see less Gradius and Beatmanias in the future because the focus will be on the same people. A musician like Kaplaci (Command and Conquer) is less likely to work for a game than he was before, and that's bad. There are going to be less influences and more inbreeding.

Think about it, are the following soundtracks accepted in today's world?

- Sunset riders (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmM6Mew_48Y)
- Metal Slug (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF5PlhFXEZ8)
- Megaman 3 (WTF, HAPPY THEME FOR STAGE???) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ0UN-9Pbyc=)
Etc.

This thread reminds me of that Keith Apicary video where he interviews fake gaming celebrities and shows their ignorance on the topic. He talked with the composer with God of War and it was obvious that besides the big ego he didn't know much about videogame music.

I also get the feeling that movie composers see videogame music as shameful or second-grade work.

Post by **Menegrothx** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:12 pm

J T wrote:but much of the soundtrack is just wallpaper music: it adds a little color to the background, but it's not the focus.

I got to agree with this and the Hans Zimmer comment. There is so much pompous "epic" music out there today that is just bland, generic and not at all uplifting in any way. I think that a something that resemles a modern trance song but yet retains its video game music might work better, something like the build up from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv_b1-bsN5o&t=4m25s to 5min, 30 seconds - its more uplifting and capturing to me than most failed attempts at movie music.

Good point. In many old games the music really captured the stages feel, like in those Crash Bandicoot and Tekken 2 songs I linked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhf9dfwgNRU - The Crash bandicoot 2 ice bear cub riding levels. I mean the melody is so cheery and cartooney and its exactly the sort of music you would expect hearing when a bandicoot rides a polar cub on slippery ice while dodging all sorts of hazards

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efXstOTVpWs -Tekken 2 Juns stage music. Its sounds like exactly what it was titled, morning field. Peaceful, green hill with some houses here and there. Compare that with the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaMfUER2unA Lei Wulong stage theme. It gets you pumped and it souns exactly what it tries to be - an action movie scene placed in Hong Kong.

General_Norris wrote:
I also get the feeling that movie composers see videogame music as shameful or second-grade work.

This is just a wild idea but maybe game studios these day just buy pretty much ready sound tracks from movie composers? So the composers dont really study the actual stages and scenes to make proper adjustments to the music.
Mega Man games on NES and SNES had excellent music and the new 9&10 games are no expection, but only because they try to emulate the NES experience.

Amnesia the dark descent had one of the best modern soundtracks in recent memory and by the looks of it, it was done in the old fashioned way - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYvRjiaKVew

Zing wrote: I still recall my incredulous feeling when I first heard Madden 2001 on my friend's computer and the title screen music was a rap song.

Unlike Sonic I don't chuckle

Post by **BoneSnapDeez** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:49 pm

J T wrote:This is the price we pay for voice acting. The older generation of games had to have good soundtracks because there was nothing else to listen to and without a good soundtrack, the game felt monotonous, so they got really adventurous with melody and harmony. Once you add voice actors into the mix though, there is too much noise at once to have a strongly melody driven soundtrack while people are talking. It just sounds jumbled. So, like movies, video games have taken to producing more ambient music. Occassionally action sequences will have something with a bit more dynamic flair, but much of the soundtrack is just wallpaper music: it adds a little color to the background, but it's not the focus.

Are there any games with constant, persistent voice acting though? I have no idea, I don't play most "popular" modern titles and 90% of the 7th gen games I've finished were on handhelds.

The vast majority of the modern titles I have played contain cut scenes once every 20 minutes or so, where music simply drops a bit in volume so the voices can be at the forefront. Then it's back to the action.

Point being, if developers are saying "well we have voice acting!" as an excuse to include crappy/nonexistent music....... well that's just being lazy.

Seems like composers just aren't willing to take risks anymore either. Look at Nobuo Uematsu's Final Fantasy VI soundtrack which contains an opera, a 17 minute classical piece for the final boss battles, individual theme songs for each character, a 21 minute ending piece that intertwines those theme songs, plus many more additional highlights. And that was all done with 16 bit technology, that takes some serious sac. No one these days is creating anything even remotely similar.

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