Just read The Masters of Doom

The Philosophy, Art, and Social Influence of games
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RCBH928
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Just read The Masters of Doom

Post by RCBH928 »

**SPOILERS**

Someone here told me to read the Doom Masters some long time ago. I never thought i will read a book about how a game was made. First I pirated a version. I read some, when I liked it I bought a digital copy from kindle. I completed the book in like a week. First book digitally bought, fastest book i read ever. It really appealed to me I guess because it combines 2 of the things I like most: Business and technology. Also the book is well written not to confuse you or making it a hard read. It just flows.

I do have some stuff I want to point out:

1) I doubt that everything the author said is true. The book has like daily conversations that happened 10 years or more before the author started writing the book. I can understand when some one would remember a memorable quote that stuck in his mind, but who remembers a whole conversation? Other times the author would tell you what were people thinking in their minds. Like he was in the brains. I am sure people can tell him in interviews what they were thinking but not up to this detail. Those who read the book will know what I mean. Its like he was there all along since Romero's childhood.

2) John Romero in the book is pictured as the greatest level designer in the world. I can be wrong, but other than Doom, what was so great about his level designs? on his website rome.ro , it says that he worked on 130 games! But the only ones worth mentioning are Doom, Wolfenstien 3D, and Quake. And to be honest, Doom is the only one with level design. I believe Wolfenstein 3D level design is not worthwhile mentioning, and Quake was more about deathmatch/multiplayer than single player experience. I don't think the design was so emphasized in that game. So in reality he made only Doom, whats the big deal? I believe people who created level designs on stuff like Sonic, Super Mario Bros. , and Mario 64 (other memorable game levels) should be mentioned here as the better video game designers, not Romero. I think Doom made Romero famous not the other way around.

3) From cover to cover, I am sure John Carmack didn't since more than 2 paragraphs all together over the span of like 20 years. The author makes John Carmack as if he was a machine not human. In fact, in more than one place he would say that Carmack replies just with "mmm" like a machine's noise. From the first day on id to the end of the book, he repeatedly mentions that Carmack in his office working alone. Who works alone for like 15 years? I came to a point where I thought this Carmack guy has no feelings, he is cold blooded. I had to see a few youtube videos of him just to check if he can smile.

4) The author says that the id team worked so hard. So hard that I can't believe its true. He would say that they will work like 12 hours straight for a month maybe months. In fact he says that John Carmack would go for a full week in isolation just working alone in some far away hotel room. I just don't think any one can work so much. If he said like it happened once in their life I would believe it. But he mentions this like with every game they made. Ironically he would mention that during their hard working hours, they still have time to play Street Fighter, Mario, Doom, have BBQs, and go out on lake trips. Seems more fun than work to me. I just don't buy it.

5) I really didn't know that a group of 5-8 guys can make a game. Sure they can make something small like a tiny character jumping around, but when Doom was released back then I believe it was considered a triple A title, something on par with Halo today. I am completely amazed by this, and it only took like 2 years or less. Not to mention the very same 6-8 guys made video game innovations in that game like Deathmatch.

6) I find it weird that the book mentions that Romero knows to program more than Carmack, but Carmack ended up being the programing genius and Romero just a level designer.

7)If what the book says is true about John Carmack, this guy is just not recognized enough. He should be right there with greatest people of the 20th century along with Einstein . He single handily made video game innovations that bigger companies like Nintendo and Microsoft couldn't'/didn't do . Or so the book seems to say.

8)What the hell is game engine? Is it like Photoshop for pictures? The author keeps saying that Carmack codes the game engine . I find it very hard to believe someone will build his own software to build his game. Thats like I make my own "photoshop" just so I can edit pictures.

Just my thoughts on the book. Very interesting, willing to play doom more than ever now.
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Re: Just read The Masters of Doom

Post by AppleQueso »

kingmohd84 wrote:8)What the hell is game engine? Is it like Photoshop for pictures? The author keeps saying that Carmack codes the game engine . I find it very hard to believe someone will build his own software to build his game. Thats like I make my own "photoshop" just so I can edit pictures.

Actually this is exactly how many games were made for a very long time.
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Re: Just read The Masters of Doom

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kingmohd84 wrote: The author says that the id team worked so hard. So hard that I can't believe its true. He would say that they will work like 12 hours straight for a month maybe months. In fact he says that John Carmack would go for a full week in isolation just working alone in some far away hotel room. I just don't think any one can work so much. If he said like it happened once in their life I would believe it. But he mentions this like with every game they made. Ironically he would mention that during their hard working hours, they still have time to play Street Fighter, Mario, Doom, have BBQs, and go out on lake trips. Seems more fun than work to me. I just don't buy it.

No, this is actually very common in the industry, and moreso in the earlier years when dev teams were small. One of the things that turned me off to pursuing a career in game development was the constant mention of crunch time in post mortems of video games. Pretty much every game will have a period of 1-3 months before ship where people work crazy hours.

5) I really didn't know that a group of 5-8 guys can make a game. Sure they can make something small like a tiny character jumping around, but when Doom was released back then I believe it was considered a triple A title, something on par with Halo today. I am completely amazed by this, and it only took like 2 years or less. Not to mention the very same 6-8 guys made video game innovations in that game like Deathmatch.

It's extremely possible. The trick is that since the technology was so primitive you were limited in what you could do, which meant you didn't need as many people. A modern video game doesn't actually involve a huge number of programmers; the majority of the team is working on art assets.

8)What the hell is game engine? Is it like Photoshop for pictures? The author keeps saying that Carmack codes the game engine . I find it very hard to believe someone will build his own software to build his game. Thats like I make my own "photoshop" just so I can edit pictures.

A game engine is a framework for a game. You can then plug in various assets, such as levels, monsters, and weapons and have a completed game. This makes it easy to swap out those assets without changing the fundamentals of how the game works. The big stuff the engine does is it draws to the screen (which is actually very complicated when you start doing 3D stuff) and handles collisions (making sure you don't fall through the floor/go through a wall/go through a monster).
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Re: Just read The Masters of Doom

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kingmohd84 wrote:3) The author makes John Carmack as if he was a machine not human. In fact, in more than one place he would say that Carmack replies just with "mmm" like a machine's noise. From the first day on id to the end of the book, he repeatedly mentions that Carmack in his office working alone. Who works alone for like 15 years? I came to a point where I thought this Carmack guy has no feelings, he is cold blooded. I had to see a few youtube videos of him just to check if he can smile.

That looks a quite apt description of him. Given the sources I have heard and the themes the book wants to transmit it's actually to be expected. After all, the song "Deep into the code" from the soundtrack was inspired by his work ethic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5KVMnS9zgY

4) The author says that the id team worked so hard. So hard that I can't believe its true. He would say that they will work like 12 hours straight for a month maybe months. [...]I just don't think any one can work so much.

There are many, many people in the world who work more than 12 hours a day, often involving manual labour. Just how things are.

I really didn't know that a group of 5-8 guys can make a game. Sure they can make something small like a tiny character jumping around, but when Doom was released back then I believe it was considered a triple A title, something on par with Halo today.

Actually, Doom was a shareware title, with no publisher backing and absolutedly no advertising or anything. It was a risky move by a company that was known for making a couple good games but that was it.

Modern games need more people to work on them because the process is more time-consuming. It's easy for a single person to draw all of Doom's enemies on it's own but several people need to work on the thousands of polygons a game like Halo has.

Note that all other games of the era were made by only a handful of people as well, and for PC it has always been very common for designers to code their own games. Sid Meier's comes to mind, as well as Chris Sawyer who basically created Rollercoaster Tycoon completely on his own from scratch and using assembly language! (This includes the graphics, btw)

7)If what the book says is true about John Carmack, this guy is just not recognized enough. He should be right there with greatest people of the 20th century along with Einstein . He single handily made video game innovations that bigger companies like Nintendo and Microsoft couldn't'/didn't do . Or so the book seems to say.

People don't even know who Tesla is, so it's not exactly surprising and with Yu Suzuki going unnoticed to the modern media, the recognition Carmack is given is actually quite big.

The author keeps saying that Carmack codes the game engine . I find it very hard to believe someone will build his own software to build his game.

Well, how would you do Doom without it's engine? There didn't exist any engine they could use and Carmack was more than ready to program one. Which was great since iD's engines have been all very high-quality and better investments than any of their games.


I have been eyeing the book for a while and I'm really thinking about grabbing a copy since it's so cheap. Do you think it's worth it? It looks fun to say the least and similar to "Bringing the house down" in theme vs historical acurrancy.
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Re: Just read The Masters of Doom

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yes, the book is great to learn the story of those ppl. its entertaining and informative, you really get the feeling that you are there with them living every moment.

About working long hours. Maube you can work 12 hours for 3 months but that is it. but seems like id have been in "crunch mode" since its establishment. those who read the book. will understand. I dunno how can u work on a computer for 12 hours as I , personally, get a brain burn after like 2 hours. My brain gets stuck, I just cant work longer especially on a computer. Plus what would happen to tour eyes starring at a screen for so long?

about a graphic engine. I still cant believe they create the software that creates their game on their own. I understand those days are long gone though, I think Unreal engine is the #1 software to create games or am I mistaken? I also think that Unreal used Quake's engine when it was first out but I can be wrong too.

By the way, was Daikatana that bad? The book says it sold only 41'000 copies. Thats like really bad for a game that has been in developement for 4 years. If it was because of graphics, isnt that gameplay is KING when it comes to videogames? and isnt it Romero, the gat level designer, who built it?

reading the book, made me appreaciate games more , now when I see Doom I pay attention to all the litte stuff because I know some one out there worked for it to look and act this way. Before I just moved through a game not paying attention to much of the stuff in it
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Re: Just read The Masters of Doom

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kingmohd84 wrote:About working long hours. Maube you can work 12 hours for 3 months but that is it. but seems like id have been in "crunch mode" since its establishment. those who read the book. will understand. I dunno how can u work on a computer for 12 hours as I , personally, get a brain burn after like 2 hours. My brain gets stuck, I just cant work longer especially on a computer. Plus what would happen to tour eyes starring at a screen for so long?

If you couldn't stare at a computer screen for long hours you wouldn't have gotten into programming. :P

about a graphic engine. I still cant believe they create the software that creates their game on their own. I understand those days are long gone though, I think Unreal engine is the #1 software to create games or am I mistaken? I also think that Unreal used Quake's engine when it was first out but I can be wrong too.

I don't believe Unreal used any of the Quake engine, but the GoldSrc (HL1) engine was built off of the Quake engine. Before Doom came along pretty much every game had its own unique engine, in that games were pretty much built from scratch. Then you had stuff like the Gold Box SSI RPGs and Doom/Quake which popularized the use of engines. This allows a company to license the engine and create a new game with a lot of the low-level grunt work already done. Now they can focus on things like level and monster design. In the late 90's there were three big engines: Quake 3, Unreal, and Lithtech. The Unreal 3 engine has been the real big one this generation since Epic took the time to port it to the 360 and PS3, which really helps to enable easy cross-platform development.

By the way, was Daikatana that bad? The book says it sold only 41'000 copies. Thats like really bad for a game that has been in developement for 4 years. If it was because of graphics, isnt that gameplay is KING when it comes to videogames? and isnt it Romero, the gat level designer, who built it?

The game was broken in several senses. The graphics weren't that great for the time, the weapons sucked, and you had NPC helpers who completely sucked. It just wasn't fun to play.
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RCBH928
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Re: Just read The Masters of Doom

Post by RCBH928 »

great info
thanx
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Re: Just read The Masters of Doom

Post by Hatta »

MrPopo wrote:Before Doom came along pretty much every game had its own unique engine, in that games were pretty much built from scratch. Then you had stuff like the Gold Box SSI RPGs and Doom/Quake which popularized the use of engines.


I think what iD changed is that people started licensing engines to build their own games. The use of "engines" goes at least as far back as Wizardry. Wizardry 1-4 are built on pretty much identical technology. Contrast that with Ultima, which Garriott rewrote from the ground up for each game. Game engines were pretty popular through the 80s, e.g. Scumm from LucasArts and AGI from Sierra, but they tended to stay in-house.

That really makes me wonder, what was the first licensed game engine?
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Re: Just read The Masters of Doom

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Hatta wrote:That really makes me wonder, what was the first licensed game engine?


Wasn't it Doom's engine?

Raven Software used that to make Heretic.

Unless Raven was part of Id, which I really don't remember.
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Re: Just read The Masters of Doom

Post by Hatta »

CFFJR wrote:
Hatta wrote:That really makes me wonder, what was the first licensed game engine?


Wasn't it Doom's engine?


iD licensed the Wolf3d engine to Apogee for Blake Stone, so Doom is definitely not the first. I'd be surprised though if iD was the first ever. Arguably, the Adventure Construction Set could be considered a licensed game engine I guess.
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