Why the obsession with story and characters?

[Erik_Twice]

When asked about what makes a good animatted film, Joh Lasseter, chief creative director said:

"Story, story, story, it has to have a good story first".

And it's easy to see what critics think it's the most important part of a roleplaying games:

"I play RPGs for the story. If I don't find the story worthwhile, I feel like I'm wasting my time. I am not a fan of leveling for hours on end just to see my stats go up."

And I think it's bullshit. Story over animation, story over gameplay, story over melody and characters are the second most important part. It seems like you should simply write a novel at that point because what defines the medium is never touched upon.

Characters are a second pet peeve of mine. It seems like people confuse being funny with telling jokes, there's no need to tell jokes to be funny but since it's often a part of it people confuse one with the other.

Really, did anyone care about Tex Avery's characters? Indiana Jones' plot? Simcity? Settlers of Catan? Trauma Center? Dance Dance Revolution?

And it hurts because everyone shoehorns plots where it isn't needed and the work suffers. Just think about Doom, all the dialogue and plot they added in Doom 3 was unnecesary, the lack of dialogue added a lot to the game.

This doesn't mean that story or characters can't be important but they are no more important than the rest of the work and much less the parts the define the medium, they should be understood as tools, not as raw materials that work with anything.

Thoughts?

[Curlypaul]

I'm not the biggest RPG fan, but story is not the most engaging part of them in my opinion.

I'm starting to enjoy story based games more and more lately, as the tech is starting to enable devs to create more engaging characters that side of gaming is really starting flourish, but its still not he most important part of it.

On the other hand film and animation rely on it a lot more heavily. Admittedly the spectacle of a film can carry it a long way, but the medium really needs a story to make it great. My favourite Pixar animation is Finding Nemo, and its not the beautiful aesthetics, the characters or the jokes that make it my favourite - its the story, which I find engaging and enjoyable.

Games don't need it nearly as much though, and gameplay and atmosphere can carry it off without a plot at all.

[sabrage]

Planescape.

[eskil]

Story isn't the most important aspect of a game, but it should NOT be underestimated. If you can make a game that gets away without any characters whatsoever, props to you. But that doesn't mean this is the way games should be made.
Of course, it depends on the genre. When it comes to RPGs, I will instantly lose interest in any game that doesn't have a few strong characters. In racing games (take NFS for example), story does get in the way, and I do see what you're saying when I'm playing NFS Underground. I hear the parts that came after that were much worse.
But then there's those other genres. Shmups for example. I just started playing Jamestown, and I love the fact that it's story-driven, even though this is probably the genre that needs story the least.
Overall, in my opinion games should only be story-driven if the story is actually good. Just like you, I hate games that have a story for the sake of it, but don't put any effort into story telling. I can't think of an example right now, but I'm sure you can. But I disagree heavily with your point that RPGs don't need a story. VERY heavily.

[Erik_Twice]

On the other hand film and animation rely on it a lot more heavily. Admittedly the spectacle of a film can carry it a long way, but the medium really needs a story to make it great.

That's exactly where I disagree. It doesn't need to have a good story or plot. I already listed some examples but there are dozens more. Fantasia doesn't have a plot and live-action films like Baraka don't even have a narrative! As I said, Tex Avery is considered one of the best animators in history and he never had a compelling character or plot.

A plot is not neccesary, it can help, ike any other tool, but it is not something you need. In fact, it makes more sense to need the intrinsical qualities of the medium you are using, like needing good gamplay to have a good game and good animation to have a good animated film.

Story isn't the most important aspect of a game, but it should NOT be underestimated. If you can make a game that gets away without any characters whatsoever, props to you. But that doesn't mean this is the way games should be made.

I'm not arguing for games to not have a story, I'm arguing for the understanding that not having good plot, story or characters is not important. Some games will need good characters, others won't.

For example, Doom doesn't need any characters or plot. It had to be made without them and it's not in the slighest better or worse for it.

Of course, it depends on the genre. When it comes to RPGs, I will instantly lose interest in any game that doesn't have a few strong characters.

Let's make a stop here for a second. Making a roleplaying game without characters is impossible by definition so I agree with that.

Now, a stat-driven strategy game, like Final Fantasy or any other misnomer of an RPG, doesn't need strong characters or plot. The fact that the reviewer thinks that the important part of the game is the plot and not the gameplay is quite telling.


To me, arguing that art must have a good story or good characters is like arguing you must have red in your drawing for it to be good, it puts the cart before the horse.

[lwcook]

The reason story and character development is so important in an RPG is that it is a role-playing game. The whole point of the genre is that you play as a character that this epic story revolves around as you progress.

If the game doesn't make you care about the characters or the predicament they're in, then it just turns the game into a bit of a chore.

[emwearz]

Next, movies without stories.

[eskil]

I'm not arguing for games to not have a story, I'm arguing for the understanding that not having good plot, story or characters is not important. Some games will need good characters, others won't.

You're jumping to conclusions here.

For example, Doom doesn't need any characters or plot. It had to be made without them and it's not in the slighest better or worse for it.

Point taken. Doom gets away without characters because it's an FPS game with a very intriguing athmosphere. It does, however, have a story. But since the designers recognised that the story wasn't important, they toned it down to a two-line intro.

Of course, it depends on the genre. When it comes to RPGs, I will instantly lose interest in any game that doesn't have a few strong characters.

Let's make a stop here for a second. Making a roleplaying game without characters is impossible by definition so I agree with that.

Now, a stat-driven strategy game, like Final Fantasy or any other misnomer of an RPG, doesn't need strong characters or plot. The fact that the reviewer thinks that the important part of the game is the plot and not the gameplay is quite telling.[/quote]
You're jumping to conclusions again. Especially Final Fantasy is one of my favourite series precisely because of the story. I think FF is a brilliant example of my point, not yours.
I love FF6 for its story, and I love FF5 for its gameplay (job system etc). But still, FF6 does have excellent gameplay, and FF5 has a very intriguing story.

To me, arguing that art must have a good story or good characters is like arguing you must have red in your drawing for it to be good, it puts the cart before the horse.

I really don't see how you make this connection.
Yes, story isn't always what makes a game, but in many cases, it's the defining factor, and that's okay. Just as it's okay for other games to have no story whatsoever and still be absolutely equal in quality.

Anyway, this whole argument is a bit pointless since this is so obviously a matter of preference. I can understand that if you prefer games without a story, you're upset when games that don't need a story have one, and make you sit through long cut-scenes and whatnot. But that doesn't change the value of a compelling plot.

[Curlypaul]

Anyway, this whole argument is a bit pointless since this is so obviously a matter of preference.

Thats the whole fun of these sort of discussions though!

@General_Norris - you are right Fantasia is wonderful work. The art design and animation are lavish and along with the music make a fantastic experience. Yet I would not class it as a great film personally, because of the lack of a plot and engaging charaters.

Film making in it's most basic form the art of light, yet I beleive it is capable of so much more if the film can evoke an attachment to the characters. This can trigger a sort of emotional interaction if we are made to care about what happens to the characters. Its true that artsy films can do this too, but I think thats much harder to acheive especially as the medium of film is so saturated with examples that can be instantly enjoyed without having to think about metaphors or anything.

[fvgazi]

Come to think of it, I can not remember the story details for many games unless It was one of my favorite games. The only stories i've payed attention to have been Half-Life, Resident Evil, MGS, and maybe a few other RPGS.

The most important thing to me is game play. If it ain't fun, I don't play it. Atmosphere is just as important to. I count graphics, sound, animation, level design and all that stuff in that category.

For example... Robotron 2084. One of my favorite games ever. Love the style and gameplay. The story? Just save everyone form robots. Doesn't make a difference If I was saving robots, monkeys, or poops. The game play is what does it for me.

Story is great, just not the center of a game for me.