Puppy Mills - is there a line to cross or is it unethical?

[AdamGomez1987]

Hey guys, it's me again and I was talking to my Grandfather how this would make interesting journalism as just one month ago, I seen a couple of signs with just one protester out. It wouldn't be long before I just went to Flint yesterday to the Gennessee Valley Mall and seen like half a dozen of them.

Well anyways, here's the scenerio as I've been to "The Family Puppy" which is a very clean, very clean friendly atmosphere. They are in large cages, grouped with 2-4 other puppies to play with them to keep them company and most of them are small lap dogs such as Chihuahua's, Daschund's (spelling..lol ) scottish terriers and a list of other dogs as well as some cats on the side.

To give more description of what I remember from the place, just consider it best as a Pet Shop version of Chuckie Cheese (that may sound bias, so please hear me out and I apologize), it's clean, friendly, every Saturday when I go over there, family with children take the puppies into a large pen which gives them plenty of room to run around and play with the potential owner.

And for the children who want a birthday surprise, they have a large room in the back where they have birthday celebrations and have pet animals that they play with, a fun, friendly way to market fun of having a pet.

I came out and noticed these protesters as I driven out, one of them came to my car and gave me a brochure showing the *horror* of what it was inside, talking about how it stunts their growth from being bind in a small cage, showing pictures making the cage appear like it's so small that they can't even turn their bodies by taking close up shops with all the dogs standing on their two hind legs and standing in front of the cage ( somebody probably held up a treat to get all their attention to make them look like prisoners )

Here's catch 22 as I mentioned about a line to be cross, I do believe there is as I've been to a Pet Shop over in the 12 oaks mall and the place looked like a filthy Chinese Restaurant to explain best, the dogs they had looked like a pitbull type of breed and that cage was so small for it that the poor thing's back was touching the top and it barely had any room to circle around, now I believe that is truly unethical for an animal to live in where in contrast to the Gennessee Valley one had plenty of room for all the animals and they seem to sell at a pretty fast rate, the animals are never kept alone like that certain one I mentioned ( matter of fact, I don't remember in the 12 oaks mall any of the dogs being in the kennel with any companions to play with )

I thought I'd share this scenario with you as something feels off about this, I hope we can get a good discussion about this started because I wouldn't be surprised if something happens to that pet shop in the Gennessee Valley mall whether it closes down or takes more measures of ethics for the animals and to keep that place in business. Please ask any questions.

[J T]

To provide further evidence that I can turn any conversation into something about videogames, have you guys played Escape From Puppy Death Factory?

http://games.adultswim.com/escape-from- ... -game.html

[BoringSupreez]

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[AdamGomez1987]

I'm totally fine with puppy mills.* I don't see how it's any worse when we do it to dogs than when we do it to chickens.

*Disclaimer: poster is from Missouri, aka puppy mill capitol of the world.

From what I've seen, it's nothing like that, these dogs were in cages so big that they could stand on their two hind legs with other dogs inside the cages. I think there's a line to cross with it, and I believe they approach their business ethically.

[FiftyDollarCurse]

I don't see how it's any worse when we do it to dogs than when we do it to chickens.

Because dogs are family members and chickens are food? Besides, are you arguing that it's okay to torture dogs or not okay to torture chickens? This statement just confuses me.

Anyway, puppy mills are unequivocally evil. And if you give them your money I will officially not like you at all. What the people selling these dogs present to the public is drastically different from what they do behind the scenes. Of this I have no doubt at all. Whether or not their location is some 20/20-worthy chamber of horrors, maybe not. But I assure their lives are much worse than how you would treat your own dog.

Go to your local shelter and adopt a homeless mutt. It will live longer, make you happier and make you a much better person than a $150 dog from a puppy mill/pet store. Your purebred dog will live half as long and cost you a fortune in veterinary bills. The choice is between whether you want your dog to be your friend or you want your dog to be a status symbol.

[AdamGomez1987]

I don't see how it's any worse when we do it to dogs than when we do it to chickens.

Because dogs are family members and chickens are food? Besides, are you arguing that it's okay to torture dogs or not okay to torture chickens? This statement just confuses me.

Anyway, puppy mills are unequivocally evil. And if you give them your money I will officially not like you at all. What the people selling these dogs present to the public is drastically different from what they do behind the scenes. Of this I have no doubt at all. Whether or not their location is some 20/20-worthy chamber of horrors, maybe not. But I assure their lives are much worse than how you would treat your dog.

Go to your local shelter and adopt a homeless mutt. It will live longer, make you happier and make you a much better person than a $150 dollar dog from a puppy mill/pet store. Your purebred dog will live half as long and cost you a fortune in veterinary bills. The choice is between you whether you want your dog to be your friend or you want your dog to be a status symbol.

That's what confuses me as I keep hearing about adopting a mutt from a shelter vs buying one at a mill. The way that it's worded makes it sound like that dogs that are from a mill do not deserve a home because they happened to be in the fate of a mill? Every pet deserves a home no matter where they come from. I never purchased a pet from a mill as the last dog was a rottweiler and was purchased from a farm, unfortunately the dog lived until he was almost 9 years old.

[FiftyDollarCurse]

That's what confuses me as I keep hearing about adopting a mutt from a shelter vs buying one at a mill. The way that it's worded makes it sound like that dogs that are from a mill do not deserve a home because they happened to be in the fate of a mill?

Not at all. It isn't the animals I'm thinking of here, it's the humans. Every dollar you spend (on anything) is your approval for the how/when/why it is made. When you give the folks who see dogs and cats as nothing but commodities your money, you ensure that they will continue breed excess animals because it will continue to make them money. If people weren't keeping these people in business by paying them for the current trendy animals then these place would not exist at all.

Every pet deserves a home no matter where they come from.

[/quote]

Completely agree. So do you want to give $150 to those greedy assholes for a dog that will probably be purchased by some asshole yuppies anyway or $20 that will be used to feed and comfort homeless pets on a dog that will be euthanized if no one accepts it?

[AdamGomez1987]

Completely agree. So do you want to give $150 to those greedy assholes for a dog that will probably be purchased by some asshole yuppies anyway or $20 that will be used to feed and comfort homeless pets on a dog that will be euthanized if no one accepts it?

For the common man, the philosophy that someone would pay extra money for something that they saved their cash for may ensure that they receive a dog that they spent their hard earned cash for. This may sound odd for what I'm saying, but I'm trying to say is that if somebody gets an animal from the pound, since they aren't paying a fee for it, would have a higher chance of them being negligent with their pet than someone who paid for an animal they really wanted.

[irixith]

Our family has a dog that came from a mill. No, we didn't get him from there, we got him from the people who got him from there.

He's pretty fucked up.

Whenever you give him any food, he devours it like he's never been fed, furtively darting his eyes every which way. If you got your hand in the way, he'd bite it off. This behaviour comes from being put in a cage with the other mill dogs and having to fight for their food. He's 2 now, and no matter what we've done, the behaviour remains. He fear pees when you come near him too quickly, or bend down to attach a leash to his collar. He eats his own feces. There's a very long list. That environment just messes the dogs up.

Even without having a dog from one, I'd still be against it. I have no problem with the breeding, but if you're going to do it, for goodness sake do it right. Nobody wants a dog like what we've ended up with.

[equalsign]

I don't see how it's any worse when we do it to dogs than when we do it to chickens.

Because dogs are family members and chickens are food? Besides, are you arguing that it's okay to torture dogs or not okay to torture chickens? This statement just confuses me.

Anyway, puppy mills are unequivocally evil. And if you give them your money I will officially not like you at all. What the people selling these dogs present to the public is drastically different from what they do behind the scenes. Of this I have no doubt at all. Whether or not their location is some 20/20-worthy chamber of horrors, maybe not. But I assure their lives are much worse than how you would treat your dog.

Go to your local shelter and adopt a homeless mutt. It will live longer, make you happier and make you a much better person than a $150 dollar dog from a puppy mill/pet store. Your purebred dog will live half as long and cost you a fortune in veterinary bills. The choice is between you whether you want your dog to be your friend or you want your dog to be a status symbol.

That's what confuses me as I keep hearing about adopting a mutt from a shelter vs buying one at a mill. The way that it's worded makes it sound like that dogs that are from a mill do not deserve a home because they happened to be in the fate of a mill? Every pet deserves a home no matter where they come from. I never purchased a pet from a mill as the last dog was a rottweiler and was purchased from a farm, unfortunately the dog lived until he was almost 9 years old.

Every animal having a home is a nice idea, but quite simply there are too many unwanted animals. People get them on a whim, abandon them in the streets, surrender them to shelters, and do not take spaying and neutering seriously. At the end of the day it's a choice between giving your money to people who manipulate animals for profit and those who are trying to help them find homes.

What do you think happens to those puppies that aren't good enough be sold? They get to die in homemade gas chambers or live out miserable lives in cramped cages.

Millions of "pet" animals are euthanized every year. With the surge in "no kill" shelters, many more are essentially sentenced to life in prison. That animal hoarder **** is screwed up.

I've volunteered at many of the animals shelters in my area, and seeing hundreds of dogs freaked out and incredibly lonely in tiny, barren cages in just terrible. The noise in those places is almost unbearable at times. You see ugly or bad tempered/scared dogs there week after week and it really starts to sink in that they are going to die. When they cry at the doors of their cages and press up against the chain hoping just to be pet and touched (which in many shelters you cannot do for risk of spreading disease) you really start to think that maybe there are enough dogs without puppy mills pushing them out for a quick buck.