Clay Shirky on group cohesion and the internet - edited

[marurun]

Edited: Now with more quotage.

I'm reading a Clay Shirky article for class and I wanted to pick out a particular section to share here as we are sometimes guilty of it.

http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html

The third pattern Bion identified: Religious veneration. The nomination and worship of a religious icon or a set of religious tenets. The religious pattern is, essentially, we have nominated something that's beyond critique. You can see this pattern on the Internet any day you like. Go onto a Tolkein newsgroup or discussion forum, and try saying "You know, The Two Towers is a little dull. I mean loooong. We didn't need that much description about the forest, because it's pretty much the same forest all the way."

Try having that discussion. On the door of the group it will say: "This is for discussing the works of Tolkein." Go in and try and have that discussion.

Now, in some places people say "Yes, but it needed to, because it had to convey the sense of lassitude," or whatever. But in most places you'll simply be flamed to high heaven, because you're interfering with the religious text.

What are our sacred cows in this community? Half Life 2 seems to be one. In most forums like this I'd say Final Fantasy VII, except recent discussion is tearing that one down a little. Chrono Trigger? Street Fighter II? We're not as bad as most forums about this kind of thing, and I'm glad of it. We're allowed to still pick at the holy artifacts and it's OK. Any other thoughts on this topic?

There's also another quote I find compelling:

A pattern will arise in which there is some group of users that cares more than average about the integrity and success of the group as a whole. And that becomes your core group, Art Kleiner's phrase for "the group within the group that matters most." ...a core group arises that cares about and gardens effectively. Gardens the environment, to keep it growing, to keep it healthy.

On message boards this is usually mods, but there's lots of self-policing as well in solid communities. And then there are insular communities where discussion isn't welcome. They WANT to be surrounded by their own views, and that's their core community imperative.

[Original_Name]

I'd say undermining systems that were already undermined is one of the biggest no-no's here. This site is devoted towards exploring the possibilities of older gaming consoles - popular and unpopular. If you have a thread that says, "Sega CD/Sega Saturn/3D0/whatever sucks", people will generally jump in with a list of essential games and hidden gems. I say doing that is a big no-no, but in a way, it's sorta what the site is here for -- it's a yes-yes. The people here are generally quite friendly and/or helpful (the "/or" was added for the very helpful, yet generally grumpy Mozgus), so they tend to enjoy concocting a huge list of worthwhile games for relatively overlooked systems. So while those who respond to said blasphemous post may be a bit peeved that someone could be so ignorant to a system's fantastic games, they truly enjoy helping others realize their potential. Still, such posts always merit lengthy and helpful (if a bit condescending) responses.

[Reverend]

The article fails to tell differentiate the people who genuinely are questioning the "religion" and the trolls who just want to bother everyone.

Generally, only the trolls and/or very rude people are flamed (depending on where you are), the others are usually steered in the right direction by whoever is willing to take the time to try and explain. If they are still unsure, then they either flamed then (as in most religions) or ignored.

[Cronson]

This is a great topic.

I won't name any sacred cows but I will say the thing that bums me out the most on our boards deals with the lack of reciprocity. I think there's a lot of brash and angry people out there who respond in a way they wouldn't if they were face to face with that person. Likewise, these people often use posting and replying like its some sort of punching bag to vent out their anger.

Just my thoughts. I know Denis Dyack has said this all before.

[RadarScope1]

Shirky's a bright guy.

Marurun, is this an article you're reading as a hard copy? Can you link to it if it's online?

[marurun]

Sorry, just mouse over the word "article" in the beginning of the post. It's a link. For some reason this BB theme doesn't distinguish links by underlining them. I'll add the URL to the post, too.