Panzer Dragoon Saga Question(s)

[pierrot]

I like you Anonymous! I really agree with you on Final Fantasy IX though.

I had the same thought.

[Reprise]

Back on topic though. In response to Hatta, some games load on side quests to pad the playtime. A lot of times they do nothing to develop any characters and seem really juvenile against the tone of the story. I feel like any side quests need to add to the development of characters. Some games do this incredibly right and I applaud them for that. Sometimes linearity is a good thing, as long as it is done well.

I completely agree with this series of statements. Well said. In particular, the part I bolded, I really do despise in certain RPGs.

"The world is facing impending doom, as a wage of war continues between Good and Evil, and a great power now being in the hands of Evil. You must travel across to a distant land, unlocking the power of Maliosious from 6 hidden fortresses.... But first you must help this farmer find his missing pig and help his wife retrieve her 10 missing braceletts by fishing for them in ponds scattered around the village."

[Hatta]

Back on topic though. In response to Hatta, some games load on side quests to pad the playtime.

If the gameplay itself isn't entertaining enough that you want to complete the side quests simply to enjoy the playing of the game, that's a problem with the gameplay. When the gameplay is great, you want it padded out. It's definitely a good thing to have side quests fit into the plot logically, but if the gameplay itself is good I'm willing to forgive just about anything.

[pierrot]

^What RPG in existence is like that? I'm of the mind that the less useless padding, the better, no matter the game.

[Reprise]

^What RPG in existence is like that? I'm of the mind that the less useless padding, the better, no matter the game.

Agreed. I want my games streamlined.

[Hatta]

In that case, why play a game at all? Just watch some anime. The point of a game is compelling game mechanics.

I gave two examples earlier, Baldur's Gate and Persona. Every time you level up in BG, your characters gain skills that affect the way you approach combat. Every time you encounter foes, they have their own set of skills and equipment that will affect how well your strategy works. Combat is so enjoyable that I'll frequently reload just to see how well another strategy would have worked. In effect, I'm "padding out" my own game because it's just that fun to play.

BTW, I do agree with anonymous1980, Baldur's Gate is surpassed by all those games he mentioned. It's just a handy example for this forum, since we played it for Together Retro earlier this year.

[Ben]

In that case, why play a game at all? Just watch some anime. The point of a game is compelling game mechanics.

I gave two examples earlier, Baldur's Gate and Persona. Every time you level up in BG, your characters gain skills that affect the way you approach combat. Every time you encounter foes, they have their own set of skills and equipment that will affect how well your strategy works. Combat is so enjoyable that I'll frequently reload just to see how well another strategy would have worked. In effect, I'm "padding out" my own game because it's just that fun to play.

BTW, I do agree with anonymous1980, Baldur's Gate is surpassed by all those games he mentioned. It's just a handy example for this forum, since we played it for Together Retro earlier this year.

Well, I think your first criticism would probably be more apt for some of those rpg-esque Sega CD games than Panzer Dragoon Saga, because it does have a lot of actual gameplay (even if you're generous and say the cinema scenes, in game cutscenes, etc. take 2 hours, that's a good 13 hours of gameplay). I think that to people who like the battle system, it is compelling and worth playing through again, but it's not necessarily for the die-hard old school RPG fan.

I remember reading an article Roger Ebert wrote about why he didn't consider games art, and his take was that the different pacing (and in some cases outcomes) didn't make it a consistent experience. I still don't think he'd consider this game art, but I personally would, and if you're looking for an interactive experience that can tell a story I think RPGs can fit a really interesting niche. So if you're of that mindset, this game is your thing, but it may not be for everyone necessarily who would prioritize the length of hours you can get from it and the variety of the battle system over things like pacing and story structure. I would still argue that it is no less an amount of gameplay than the first two Panzer games though, it's just an entirely different form of it, so if you want to hold this game to the fire then the whole trilogy falls short in that regard. The great thing about gaming is that if you don't care for it, you don't have to play, and there are hundreds of RPGs out there more in line with what you would consider a proper game experience.

[pierrot]

In that case, why play a game at all? Just watch some anime. The point of a game is compelling game mechanics.

There is a difference between a linear game, and a game that trims the excess fat. I prefer the latter, but I can accept the former as well. It does not follow that a game that doesn't waste the player's time by needlessly extending the playing experience must also lack compelling game mechanics, either.

I'm also not really sure if we're even talking about PDS anymore. Are we?

[SonicEchoes]

Okay!

So I want to reply to some people who asked me follow up questions!

There are one areas in the game that do seem to drag, the end of disk 2 when you're exploring some underwater dungeon. The first play through I explored every nook and cranny, my second play through? Nope! But the first time though, it does give you some back stories on the actual dragons and the ancients. I just wish it was more challenging and less.. empty

And the hidden spoiler tag... lets see...

Yes, when Crayman was actually the 'good' guy in many ways. Edge was a hired imperial guard anyway. Maybe not a bad guy per say but he felt betrayed by the Imperials and sought revenge against Crayman. You realize why Azel was insisted in helping Crayman. It wasn't so black and white

What a twist!

I also agree about how some RPGs take over 40-60 hours and don't want it to end. I remember when I completed Skies of Arcadia and I was a bit sad about it (and I was like, yeah they'll totally make a sequel!) and I also feel the same way for Valkyria Chronicles (which I am in the last or so chapter, first time playing it). As for Saga, I was sad when it ended and I wanted to explore more of the world, the towns, etc. But it couldn't, the story wouldn't allow it, it wouldn't of made sense.

My biggest gripe though was the overall easiness, only when you were attacked multiple times in a row and you're ill equipped is when things get tough.

I'll admit that I am a huge Sega fanboy and that may cloud my own judgement.

Do I think it was worth it? Paying how much I did for it? Well, as many people have said before me, it is worth as much as you are willing to pay for it. So yes.

My next hunt if for Phantasy Star (SMS) and the Shining Series too.

[MulishaSoldier929]

My biggest gripe though was the overall easiness, only when you were attacked multiple times in a row and you're ill equipped is when things get tough.

Same here. The game was easy, especially on the 2nd play thru. Can't remember ever dying to a non-boss character and even dying from a boss was rare. Would of been nice if after beating the game you are given the option for a hard mode.

Another gripe:
Like I also stated before, most of the magic was garbage. Sure it looked pretty but the majority of it was a waste of time. Wouldn't do nearly as much damage as just using a well placed shot or your lasers. Which is too bad since they did a nice job on the effects overall.

Add a hard mode, fix the magic system so its useful, and you would have an 11/10 game in my book