Orbis/PS4 Rumor Mill and News

[isiolia]

Not everyone who buys an iPad uses it for gaming though. It's not even really marketed as a game system. It's just an oversized PDA that just so happens to play games

Eh, not entirely accurate - Apple does bring up gaming fairly regularly, often bringing a game dev on stage to demo something when they show off the capabilities of new iOS devices. They're also quick to point out sales numbers that draw comparison.

The current crop of tablets aren't especially comparable to PDAs either - there are certainly comparisons you could draw, but PDAs were primarily designed as digital organizers, not media consumption devices.

I do agree, it's a different kind of device in general - but I'm not trying to make an argument for or against iOS/Android supplanting consoles. Rather, I brought it up as an example of a device that's sold extremely well despite being built around concepts that some are claiming would drive customers away. I'm not claiming 100% of customers are satisfied, nor that they should be, just that Apple has pulled in tens of billions of dollars using that business model.

'course, Steam, XBL, PSN, and so on have all been very successful in their own right as well, if you think gaming is an exception to that.

Seriously though, when all those games that people wanted to buy new 3 months ago start disappearing from store shelves and the only way to get them is through the web (which a lot of casual gamers probably don't do) or buying them used but having to pay a hefty fee to activate them, you will see console and game sales sink like a rock. Especially when there's other avenues of gaming out there like running hacked/modded consoles, emulation and cheap iOS games.

Or, more likely, that the disc based copies will just be offered alongside direct-download versions, like you have with PC gaming now. Many console trends are simply a generation (or two) behind PC gaming, and I think this falls right in line with that.

The concept of an integrated app store is becoming very common - soon every major computer OS will have one, every smartphone OS has one, hell, even some TVs have them. The major hurdle is fast connections with high/no data caps, though obviously enough people have them to support Steam/Amazon/GoG/Direct2Drive/Origin/Gamestop/whatever stores already.

It's not a perfect solution per se, and there are definitely legitimate concerns...but at the end of the day the question here is money. If the customer base is large enough for it to be profitable, much less more profitable, then that's where things will go.

This isn't uncharted territory, and I highly doubt a shift to that model would even be on the table if analysis didn't point to it being the more profitable route forward.

[Weekend_Warrior]

Everything you just said is good and dandy for hardcore gamers, but what about the casual game market?

There's a reason PC gaming has been kept separate from home console gaming. Home console gaming is supposed to be about easy access. You put in your cartridge or game disc in and then it plays. A person shouldn't have to sit through 20 different loading and prompt screens for firmware updates, game installs, registering online passes, and DLC bullshit before I even get to the main title screen. And you sure as shit shouldn't have to be connected or registered online to play your games! I mean, can you imagine buying a game like Radiant Silvergun for the Sega Saturn for $300, putting it in your Saturn, pressing power, and then you receive a prompt that says "We're sorry. You do not appear to own this game. You must now create an online account from our shitty network that may expose your personal information to online hackers and pay $20 in order to purchase the rights for this title to work in your Sega Saturn. You may also sign up for our online pass for $50 a year so you can play it online and download additional stupid content that you don't need like avatar outfits and screensavers (at their individually marked prices). Thank you and enjoy Radiant Silvergun!?"

[env963]

Love the Radiant Silvergun comment!

What I find funny is that If you look across multiple websites you will find something similar.

#1 Most gamers (at least according to polls) show that consumers aren't ready for a new console.

#2 I have never in all my years of gaming seen so many people not looking forward to new hardware. Look around on other websites... I think Sony and Microsoft will see quite the backlash. If they want to do all these restrictions they need to bring pricing in line with what apple is charging otherwise bye bye sony/microsoft or nintendo.

[BoneSnapDeez]

I have never in all my years of gaming seen so many people not looking forward to new hardware.

Good point here. Remember how excited people were about the Nintendo (Ultra) 64 and PlayStation? I don't anyone who's psyched about these new consoles.

[Stark]

I have never in all my years of gaming seen so many people not looking forward to new hardware.

Good point here. Remember how excited people were about the Nintendo (Ultra) 64 and PlayStation? I don't anyone who's psyched about these new consoles.

I am.

Here's what I said here:

This move could destroy Gamestop. I could be wrong, but it looks like the execs at Microsoft and Sony want to follow (or emulate) the Steam model.

I think this is exactly what they are doing. And if they do it as well as Steam has with killer sales, weekly drops, bundles including all the DLC of a game. I will buy it whole hog AND I will be looking forward to it.

If they do that ^ I'm on board. If it has the DRM but the price doesn't drastically drop, then I'm less excited, but I would probably still get it.

[isiolia]

Everything you just said is good and dandy for hardcore gamers, but what about the casual game market?

Again though, the market in general already has shown that the model works.

Just recently, for example, Apple gave out a $10,000 prize to a woman in China who downloaded the 25 billionth app (which was a puzzle game). That doesn't lend itself to the supposition that casual users would be blocked by a wall of complexity.

As I mentioned early on, part of the advantage of having this sort of capability built in, given that publishers are going to do it anyway, is that the console can handle license transfers/sales in a consistent manner.
Would it all be more complicated than just popping a disc in? Sure. But consoles are already past the point of strict plug-and-play.

Essentially though, consumer electronics are evolving, and consoles along with them. The Radiant Silvergun example is, in my opinion, somewhat flawed. The reason being that you're mixing paradigms. A future console based around keying all game licenses to a player's account likely wouldn't see game discs become worth $300. Using the console at all would already mean having an account with whatever service it was attached to. More realistically, you'd just buy the direct download version for $9.99, and get access to it on your handhelds as well.
In a way, it's like complaining about the lack of a CD slot on an iPod. Things will just be built around a different business model and user experience.

[KDub]

You can NOT compare the Tablet and Phone market to the actual gaming market. It is apples and oranges.

The phone/app market is something that is a secondary bonus to the heavier need of a phone. People have phones because they need a phone and they download a game because they can. People don't go out and buy a new Android phone so they can play Mega Man X.

Yes there are games on modern phones but outside of the Xperia Play they aren't made to be gaming devices. Tablets get close to people buying games because they want to game on a tablet, since the tablet is largely just a media device.

But still it isn't the same as buying the Wii because you want to play video games. Plus the game market on these hand helds aren't even comparable for the most part.

Could this change in the future? Sure! But for now, it is a weak comparison and bad evidence that people are willing to move into an all download system of gaming. Grabbing some free to 99cent apps on the internet connection your phone came with, just not the same.

[Phades]

The smartest model that Sony/Microsoft could follow would be ALMOST what Sony is doing with the Vita.

Step 1 - Have every game available day 1 in both a physical and digital format.
Step 2 - Have the digital version substantially discounted and keep up with market pricing trends (here is where they fail miserably).
Step 3 - ????
Step 4 - Profit.

It's a win for customers, and a win for them. The problem is that they're greedy or just plain stupid (or both) and barely mark down the games if at all.

[isiolia]

Could this change in the future? Sure! But for now, it is a weak comparison and bad evidence that people are willing to move into an all download system of gaming. Grabbing some free to 99cent apps on the internet connection your phone came with, just not the same.

I think it will because people are becoming accustomed to it, and because it's far from unheard of in gaming. PC gaming largely has already, and all current consoles have parts of their libraries that are downloadable, if not download only. There just isn't widespread rejection of it, rather, you see it growing all the time. Look at, say, the holiday bundles over time for the 360 - up until last year, two actual game discs. This past season, a disc and a download.

It's a shift that's already taking place.

What the intended purpose of a device is, I think, is less relevant than the mentality towards ownership, or where your "stuff" is. Between digital music, eBooks, streaming video, downloaded apps, whatever, the perceived gap between digital libraries and physical ones needs to shrink. A book is valuable because of what's printed in it, a CD because of what's stamped in it, not (usually) the physical media itself. Basically, a change in how people see the value of actual content.

I agree, it's not a sudden, on-demand type process. I'm simply pointing out where I see it already being accepted on a large scale. People are buying music, books, apps, video, all with the understanding that those bits of information have value. To me, that'd probably make them more likely to accept a similar business model for additional goods. Unless you know of a reason that video games would be an exception.

[J T]

You can NOT compare the Tablet and Phone market to the actual gaming market. It is apples and oranges.

The phone/app market is something that is a secondary bonus to the heavier need of a phone. People have phones because they need a phone and they download a game because they can. People don't go out and buy a new Android phone so they can play Mega Man X.

The casual crowd seems to be moving to tablets and phones instead of dedicated gaming systems though, so they can't just be discounted. Even casual players had to buy consoles in the past. Now, what's more casual than just having a few games in your phone? You don't have to buy a console at all and you still have access to games, and those games are getting better and better graphics, sound, and gameplay as time goes by. The next gen of consoles won't be able to sustain itself if their casual base migrates over to mobile games and abandons the notion of needing a dedicated gaming console.