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Unfortunately, you can't blame Jobs for that. He was at NeXT while Apple was making the Pippin.

noiseredux wrote:

Inazuma wrote:I believe that he did more harm than good to video games.

how?

"Lets make a really good video game for the PC or a console!"
"No. Lets make some shitty casual game for the iphone instead. We will make more money that way."

3 months later

"OK, now can we make a really good video game for the PC or a console?"
"Oh alright, but we need to dumb it down so it sells more copies."

(>_<)

In other words, the bigger the casual market gets, the more it negatively affects gamers and video games themselves.

do you have specific examples of dumbed-down games? And if so do you have specific examples showing that they were dumbed-down because of iPhone games?

haha wow such BS...is this because of iphone apps.

noiseredux wrote:do you have specific examples of dumbed-down games? And if so do you have specific examples showing that they were dumbed-down because of iPhone games?

Modern gaming in general is very dumbed down. Even the so-called hardcore titles are dumbed down compared to previous generations.

Nintendo's Wii was the first major growth of the casual market. Before the Wii, casual gaming was rather small and most people didn't think that much of it. Now thanks to the iPhone, casual gaming has absolutely exploded. It's gotten to the point where casual gaming is much larger than hardcore gaming.

So even when someone is making a hardcore game, they feel a strong need to dumb it down enough so that casual gamers may end up buying it.

Another major problem with casual gaming is the price of the games. Most of them are free or just a few dollars. Even though these games can't compare to "real games" on the dedicated gaming platforms, they are helping to reduce the value of video games in general.

It's getting harder to find people who are willing to spend $50 or more on a video game when your competition is free. So what are some game devs doing about this? They use the pay to win model.

The game is free, but if you want to be good at it, you have to pay real money. This lets them advertise the game as "free" so people actually play it. But the problem is, the game is completely destroyed thanks to this. Skill doesn't matter anymore. How much real money you spend is what determines the winner.

The pay to win business model is quickly growing in popularity. It may become the norm if we aren't careful.

Inazuma wrote:

noiseredux wrote:do you have specific examples of dumbed-down games? And if so do you have specific examples showing that they were dumbed-down because of iPhone games?

Modern gaming in general is very dumbed down. Even the so-called hardcore titles are dumbed down compared to previous generations.

Nintendo's Wii was the first major growth of the casual market. Before the Wii, casual gaming was rather small and most people didn't think that much of it. Now thanks to the iPhone, casual gaming has absolutely exploded. It's gotten to the point where casual gaming is much larger than hardcore gaming.

So even when someone is making a hardcore game, they feel a strong need to dumb it down enough so that casual gamers may end up buying it.

Another major problem with casual gaming is the price of the games. Most of them are free or just a few dollars. Even though these games can't compare to "real games" on the dedicated gaming platforms, they are helping to reduce the value of video games in general.

It's getting harder to find people who are willing to spend $50 or more on a video game when your competition is free. So what are some game devs doing about this? They use the pay to win model.

The game is free, but if you want to be good at it, you have to pay real money. This lets them advertise the game as "free" so people actually play it. But the problem is, the game is completely destroyed thanks to this. Skill doesn't matter anymore. How much real money you spend is what determines the winner.

The pay to win business model is quickly growing in popularity. It may become the norm if we aren't careful.

so you typed a bunch of stuff without answering my question: do you have specific examples of dumbed down games? You didn't name a single game, or illustrate how it was dumbed down.

I'm not necessarily saying I disagree with you. I'm just saying that if you're going to make these bold statements you not to stop and think about the reason why you are making it. You need to have a reason to back it up. Otherwise, it's just an empty statement.

Yancakes wrote:This is what happens when non-gaming publications publish an article about gaming. It's so far off base that it's a joke, but it's no less ignorant than my local papers when they publish game reviews (most of which are just for Madden or Halo, anyways).

Non-gaming? No, this was at London's Games Conference.

http://www.mcvuk.com/events/read/london ... rence-2011

It's sadder because the people who went there were executives, the people who produce games.

noiseredux wrote:do you have specific examples of dumbed down games?

Mario Kart Wii

It's the worst Mario Kart, only because of how it was designed to cater to the casual market. They dumbed down the mini turbo mechanic because it lets skilled players beat unskilled players. Casuals wouldn't enjoy the game if they always lose, so the skill/luck balance was tweaked to "fix" that. The end result is a game that isn't as good as it should have been.

In comparison, Mario Kart Double Dash and Mario Kart DS are the two best versions of Mario Kart. If you are skilled enough, you will win most of your races.

I really hope they don't ruin Mario Kart 7 the same way. Please Nintendo. Don't take away the handicap item system completely, just make skill actually matter too. Driving should be more important than items.

Inazuma wrote:

noiseredux wrote:do you have specific examples of dumbed down games?

Mario Kart Wii

It's the worst Mario Kart, only because of how it was designed to cater to the casual market. They dumbed down the mini turbo mechanic because it lets skilled players beat unskilled players. Casuals wouldn't enjoy the game if they always lose, so the skill/luck balance was tweaked to "fix" that. The end result is a game that isn't as good as it should have been.

In comparison, Mario Kart Double Dash and Mario Kart DS are the two best versions of Mario Kart. If you are skilled enough, you will win most of your races.

I really hope they don't ruin Mario Kart 7 the same way. Please Nintendo. Don't take away the handicap item system completely, just make skill actually matter too. Driving should be more important than items.

first off I'd actually say that the Mario Kart series balance issues started earlier than Wii with the inclusion of the Blue Shell. Just a thought.

At any rate, if this is the only specific example of dumbing down, let's actually think about it: how exactly do suggest that Nintendo's dumbing down of their game series has anything to do with Steve Jobs? Your original example was about some anonymous company that made iPhone games. Does Nintendo make iPhone games?

Mario Kart has been dumbed down since they abandoned coins after Mario Kart: Super Circuit.