Maybe young people don't understand RPG

[Hatta]

Hatta, I do agree, but at least there's something to play. If you're into RPG's, can you not be excited about Skyrim? I'm not expert though. I found Morrowind to be definition of RPG, even though it's not turn-based.

I played Morrowind. Felt a lot more like an FPS to me than an RPG. Didn't care for it much at all.

It's turn-based strategy that is lacking. Civ 5 was supposed to be good, but it surely wasn't, and Elemental wasn't the successor of MoM and other fantasy strategy games that it was supposed to be. Don't think Total War series is doing too well lately. Only Matrix Games, Paradox Interactive and 1C seem to publish strategy games, big lack of turn-based games even there minus the hardcore wargames. Distant Worlds and Europa Universalis III are very good real-time strategy games though.

Too many MMORTS's, tower defense games, twitchy crap like SC2, Facebook games and strategy heavy JRPG's. Though there aren't too many of the latter at all, really.

I mostly agree, but turn based strategy is still doing better than turn based RPGs. Check out these lists and compare the strategy games to the RPGs. Definitely more turn based strategy than RPGs.

[isiolia]

Sure, if you go with a watered down definition of RPG that includes everything, then yes RPGs are flourishing. But the only reason to do that is to ignore the very real plight that complex, turn based RPGs find themselves in.

I'd say it's less a "watered down" definition, and more the general, overarching definition under which any and every attempt at a computerized RPG falls under (along with other stuff).

To me, the entire point of any cRPG is to try and bring that idea of role playing to a video game. As technology progresses, as more ideas/attempts pan out, the way that people approach that goal will change.

Which is not to say that any variation on the theme we've seen so far is perfect. Far from it. I'm not trying to hold up anything as the actual ideal - personally, I find most RPGs of any style to be lacking in ambition these days. We have tech capable of so much more, yet developers seem content with a few branching paths and the possibility of sleeping with a party member

With respect to the now-rarer turn/ish based cRPGs that reveled in thick manuals and expansive maps, etc...I don't disagree. I like them, and would like to see more made than there are currently.
Personally though, I see the lack of them as a direct byproduct of developers focusing on the increasingly-crowded MMO market moreso than the turn towards action RPGs.

[Croooow!]

Only Matrix Games, Paradox Interactive and 1C seem to publish strategy games, big lack of turn-based games even there minus the hardcore wargames. Distant Worlds and Europa Universalis III are very good real-time strategy games though.

Paradox Interactive FTW! Seriously, anyone with interest in strategy games or renaissance history should check out either Europa Universalis II or III.

[Hatta]

I do not find dungeon crawlers to be role-playing games. Wizardry or Eye of the Beholder allow no more roleplaying than Flight Simulator. They are strategic games. Hell, in those games you aren't even a single person, you are an entire party. I find no game mechanics in those games indicating that you act out in their role anymore than you act Doomguy.

The key RPG mechanic is that success in combat depends on the stats of your character, and not your own skill. That's what role playing means in its traditional context. This also means that action is incompatible with RPGs. Even in a game like Morrowind, where combat is heavily weighted by stats, it's still my reaction time on which most battles hinge. You could in fact have an RPG flight sim, if your pilots had statistics that determined the maneuvers he could pull off successfully. That would obviously be very different from FSX though.

To me, the entire point of any cRPG is to try and bring that idea of role playing to a video game. As technology progresses, as more ideas/attempts pan out, the way that people approach that goal will change.

I'd agree in principle, but I think the trend is to get farther away from that ideal. When has anyone played a pen and paper RPG where combat was determined by physical challenges? Should the next version of D&D come with a dart board to make it more action oriented?

[ZeroAX]

The key RPG mechanic is that success in combat depends on the stats of your character, and not your own skill. That's what role playing means in its traditional context. This also means that action is incompatible with RPGs.

The key platformer mechanic is that success in combat depends on your character hitting the enemy on the head, which means playing the Dragoon in FF and using the jump command is playing a platformer. That's what platformer means in its traditional context. This also means that shooting (ex. Megaman, Contra) is incompatible with platformers.

[Erik_Twice]

The key RPG mechanic is that success in combat depends on the stats of your character, and not your own skill. That's what role playing means in its traditional context. This also means that action is incompatible with RPGs.

I fail to see why combat is a "key RPG mechanic". It's an often used mechanic, yes, but no reason for it to be key or central.

I have played several sessions of both GURPS and Vampire without a single combat round and murder misteries have no combat at all, while allowing lots of roleplaying.

[isiolia]

I'd agree in principle, but I think the trend is to get farther away from that ideal. When has anyone played a pen and paper RPG where combat was determined by physical challenges? Should the next version of D&D come with a dart board to make it more action oriented?

Pen and paper, perhaps not. LARP/etc, sure, you could well be fighting with a foam covered stick.

By the broader definition, and in my own opinion, RPGs have no strict requirement either way with regard to physical ability or skill. It's entirely a matter of what works for the particular game design.

[RyaNtheSlayA]

Hatta, I do agree, but at least there's something to play. If you're into RPG's, can you not be excited about Skyrim? I'm not expert though. I found Morrowind to be definition of RPG, even though it's not turn-based.

I played Morrowind. Felt a lot more like an FPS to me than an RPG. Didn't care for it much at all.

Did you try playing it like an RPG?

[Hatta]

By the broader definition, and in my own opinion, RPGs have no strict requirement either way with regard to physical ability or skill. It's entirely a matter of what works for the particular game design.

That's fine. It may in fact be the case that "RPG" works better as a catch-all term now, rather than it's more specific roots. I don't really care to argue definitions here. If you want to co-opt the term RPG, you can have it (though I'd argue that your broader definition is so broad as to be meaningless). But I know you understand what I'm referring to. What should I call it instead of RPG to minimize confusion?

Did you try playing it like an RPG?

I don't even know what this means? I played it like morrowind. If morrowind is an RPG, then I played it like an RPG. If morrowind is not an RPG than I didn't.

[RyaNtheSlayA]

Did you try playing it like an RPG?

I don't even know what this means? I played it like morrowind. If morrowind is an RPG, then I played it like an RPG. If morrowind is not an RPG than I didn't.

Just trolling a bit.

I played Morrowind. Felt a lot more like an FPS to me than an RPG. Didn't care for it much at all.

I just don't know where you're coming from. I can't think of a single FPS that feels like Morrowind. In fact, the only thing I'd say an FPS has in common with Morrowind is the first person perspective. The combat and chance to hit is based on a very RPG style formula. The world is huge with an overarching quest line and side quests. Inventory management and leveling up skills make up a huge part of whether you succeed or not. You actually role play as a character with certain attributes both social and combat oriented.

If we were talking about Oblivion on the other hand, I'd mostly agree with your statement.