Panzer Dragoon Saga Question(s)

[pierrot]

There were some decent looking areas, but nothing that would've amazed me by now surreal and unique it was. I can think of better and weirder looking areas from Final Fantasy 7 and 9 (though naturally they have an unfair advantage, as they use prerendering instead of real 3D like PDS). If you want to talk aobout striking art direction in JRPGs, Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne is a lot better in this regard in my opinion (it also features a post apocalyptc world where the player feels alone, so the comparison isn't unfair).

I'm not sure what you want out of PDS other than for it to have been developed for the Dreamcast/PS2/XBOX/PS3/360/PC which is just unrealistic, and unfair to hold against it. Early Atari, Intellivision, and Coleco games relied heavily one the player using his imagination, why would it be any different for early 3D games. Maybe you're just not a fan of the art direction of Panzer Dragoon in general, as the environments in PDS are ripped, practically, wholesale from 1 and 2. I think they do a fine job of setting a scene, and a mood; and like others, I really enjoy the art direction. There are times where the limitations of the hardware shows through, but I can't imagine that that wouldn't be an expectation of the game, going in to it.

[Menegrothx]

I'm not sure what you want out of PDS other than for it to have been developed for the Dreamcast/PS2/XBOX/PS3/360/PC which is just unrealistic, and unfair to hold against it.

If the visuals and art direction are a major selling point for a game, then yes, I expect them to be good.

Early Atari, Intellivision, and Coleco games relied heavily one the player using his imagination, why would it be any different for early 3D games.

Not comparable. You don't have to use imagination in PDS (or early 3D games in general) because the objects are there in the game world. If it was roguelike, or used flavor text alot, then you could make the argument that the game relied on the player using imagination.
Atari 2600 cover art->Atari 2600 game : you use it as a guideline for using your imagination
Detailed descriptions for relatively primitive looking character sprites in infinity engine games: you use your imagination
A nondetailed description for an ugly looking object in the PDS world: you don't have to use your imagination, the description says exactly what you see.

Maybe you're just not a fan of the art direction of Panzer Dragoon in general, as the environments in PDS are ripped, practically, wholesale from 1 and 2. I think they do a fine job of setting a scene, and a mood; and like others, I really enjoy the art direction.

I enjoy the works that inspired the game, particularly the artwork of Moebius.

[pierrot]

I'm not sure what you want out of PDS other than for it to have been developed for the Dreamcast/PS2/XBOX/PS3/360/PC which is just unrealistic, and unfair to hold against it.

If the visuals and art direction are a major selling point for a game, then yes, I expect them to be good.

What are you even comparing it to in order to make the assertion that it isn't "good"? What game of the era accomplishes more than what PDS was going for, under similar hardware limitations? It's easy to say in hindsight, 'Well this PS2 game had art direction that translated better to video game hardware.'

[MulishaSoldier929]

I'm not sure what you want out of PDS other than for it to have been developed for the Dreamcast/PS2/XBOX/PS3/360/PC which is just unrealistic, and unfair to hold against it.

If the visuals and art direction are a major selling point for a game, then yes, I expect them to be good.

What are you even comparing it to in order to make the assertion that it isn't "good"? What game of the era accomplishes more than what PDS was going for, under similar hardware limitations? It's easy to say in hindsight, 'Well this PS2 game had art direction that translated better to video game hardware.'

That is a very good point. I can not think of a large 3d game on the Saturn that out performed PDS. At least known stateside that I know of. Bulk Slash looks great but having not played it I can't say if its better graphically for sure. Burning Rangers had some quite large 3d levels but it definitely didn't age as well.

Its not the graphics tho that really enhance the game, its the art design. I'm not just talking about just Saga either. I think the entire Panzer Dragoon series in general has one of the coolest art directions in a video game.

I agree completely. I love the series art direction.

Also, here is a great article on the game's fantastic ending:

http://gameological.com/2013/08/to-the-bitter-end-panzer-dragoon-saga/

Not being religious I always had a problem understanding what exactly the Holy Ghost was. Now I completely understand! All it took was a guy comparing it to the PDS ending lol. Very good read.

[BoneSnapDeez]

I've played the Japanese version. I would like the North American version someday. Trying to get every Saturn RPG released in the states.

It's a good game, but I do find it overrated. It's far from the best 5th gen RPG and it's not even the best one on the system (I prefer Grandia and Magic Knight Rayearth to PDS).

I think sometimes we all have a tendency to overrate rare games to justify the cash dropped on them. I've seen this with Shantae, Rondo of Blood, Lucienne's Quest, etc... All great games, but there are similar common games of the same era that are superior. Just my opinion, of course.

I'll give it another shot someday if I do indeed buy another copy - I'd enjoy it more in English I'm sure.

[Menegrothx]

What are you even comparing it to in order to make the assertion that it isn't "good"? What game of the era accomplishes more than what PDS was going for, under similar hardware limitations? It's easy to say in hindsight, 'Well this PS2 game had art direction that translated better to video game hardware.'

I told you that that it is a technical feat. But that doesn't mean I still wouldn't rather play a less technically ambitious Saturn RPG, if it's easier on the eyes and has equally good or better battle system, plot and sound.

Games that were ahead of their time but poorly aged are rarely judged by the same standards people had back then when people play them nowadays. Look at System Shock 1. One of the most innovative "ahead of it's time" games of all time, but it hasn't aged well. Most people rather play something like Doom, it's a lot more standard FPS and far less ambitious, but because of that simplicity, it has aged better.

[anonymous1980]

Why are Sega fanboys so crazy about this game?

Imagine playing it wen it was released, so much different from any 5th JRPG out there - heavily cinematic, fully voice acted, fully 3D, no random encounters, unique combat system, no cliche art design/stereotypical plot, unique atmosphere/world (in video gaming).

It's linear, but not exagerated like in FFXIII. It's short, but that's actually a good thing for me, because i don't have the time to spend on a average 50 hour length JRPG.

I played it in 2012 for the first time, and its design blew me away. It's like the developers took a trip into the future, and tried to create a modern JRPG on a 5th generation system. PDS is light years ahead of any JRPG from its time in design.

It's a great game, and i highly enjoyed playing it. It's easily the best 5th generation JRPG.

[anonymous1980]

What are you even comparing it to in order to make the assertion that it isn't "good"? What game of the era accomplishes more than what PDS was going for, under similar hardware limitations? It's easy to say in hindsight, 'Well this PS2 game had art direction that translated better to video game hardware.'

I told you that that it is a technical feat. But that doesn't mean I still wouldn't rather play a less technically ambitious Saturn RPG, if it's easier on the eyes and has equally good or better battle system, plot and sound.

Games that were ahead of their time but poorly aged are rarely judged by the same standards people had back then when people play them nowadays. Look at System Shock 1. One of the most innovative "ahead of it's time" games of all time, but it hasn't aged well. Most people rather play something like Doom, it's a lot more standard FPS and far less ambitious, but because of that simplicity, it has aged better.

If you can appreciate games based on the time and system they released on, then graphics are never a problem.

System Shock 1 is a convoluted mess of a game, i would gladly play it if it weren't such a chore to comprehend the painfully time consuming level design - time that i simply can't afford wen SS2, a vastly superior game, exists.

There is nothing convoluted about PDS, it's linear, short, with a fun battle system that's learnable in 5 - 10 minutes. There's nothing like the game anywere els, neither is there a sequel. The sum of its parts are completely unique.

[Hatta]

System Shock 1 is a convoluted mess of a game, i would gladly play it if it weren't such a chore to comprehend the painfully time consuming level design - time that i simply can't afford wen SS2, a vastly superior game, exists.

That's what we like to call "depth".

There is nothing convoluted about PDS, it's linear, short, with a fun battle system that's learnable in 5 - 10 minutes. There's nothing like the game anywere els, neither is there a sequel. The sum of its parts are completely unique.

Uniqueness is one thing. Greatness is another. PDS is a fine game, that is unique and interesting. But it's not a great game.

[MulishaSoldier929]

Why are Sega fanboys so crazy about this game?

Imagine playing it wen it was released, so much different from any 5th JRPG out there - heavily cinematic, fully voice acted, fully 3D, no random encounters, unique combat system, no cliche art design/stereotypical plot, unique atmosphere/world (in video gaming).

Not to steal your thunder or anything, but unless my definition of random encounters is wrong..... PDS totally has random encounters .


I'll stick to my guns and still say its the best game made for the Saturn(that I have played*) but having not played most 5th gen rpgs(especially for other systems) I can't call it king.