Indie Games

[Gamerforlife]

I hate to say this, but the cold hard truth is...indie games don't matter in the grand scheme of things

I don't think that's fair to say. I think some of the heavy-hitters in the indie scene matter as much if not more than a lot of commercial mainstream releases. The reason for that is that there is more room for real innovation when you only have to worry about making the game you want. Mainstream games have had some innovations, but they have largely been in the areas of graphics and refining existing play control schemes. Indie games on the other hand may have less graphical "WOW", but they frequently experiment with game mechanics. There is nothing like World of Goo or Crayon Physics in the mainstream. Nobody tells a nonlinear story or bends time like Braid. No mainstream music game would let you use your own MP3 collection like Audiosurf or Stepmania because they wouldn't be able to dial in a slew of sequels with a new track pack and a few new skins to make more money. And a "game" like The Path that challenges the very notion of controlling your character, would never be released. Mainstream games have to be fun. Indie games are often fun, but they can also move into the less comfortable area of games that are not so fun, but are still engaging and intriguing experiences. Indie is where the experimentation really happens. It will just be a matter of time before these innovations worm their way into the mainstream, so it's not fair to say they don't matter.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Um, Braid was released on Xbox Live Arcade with Microsoft's backing. It's a COMMERCIAL game and thus irrelevant to the discussion. Plus, in my personal opinion, the story is a pretentious mess where nothing is really explained or resolved leaving it to fans to TRY and make sense out of it. I could whip up some nonsense in five minutes that makes no sense and call it deep. It's not that impressive. Kind of like a lot of the crap out there that passes for art. The gameplay is pretty cool though I'll happily admit that. I really enjoyed figuring out Braid's puzzles and it's a gorgeous looking and sounding game too

As for my previous point about indie games not mattering? What games move the industry forward? Indie games or commercial games? Years after their release games are still copying Grand Theft Auto III, Devil May Cry, Resident Evil 4, Half Life 2, God of War, etc. Also, how many greatest of all time lists have indie games on them? Among most gamers, what's more likely to start up a discussion? A commercial game or an indie one? Hell, even commercially released cult games like Beyond Good and Evil are more well known amongst gamers in general.

And sure, you have the occasional indie game that becomes a commercial game and gets lots of recognition like Alien Hominid, but what was that game really? A derivative Metal Slug/Contra clone and frankly, it wasn't even in the same league as those classics in terms of design. Alien Hominid's design was pure shit. It was literally impossible to finish that game without dying multiple times. Cave Story is really just a Metroid clone while we're on the subject. All just copies of commercial games.

Like I said, Indie games don't matter. Sorry, I'm a realist and I'm just proving my point, not saying that they ALL suck, but generally speaking they ALL don't matter. Some of them are fun to play...if you have the time. Which I don't, because I'd rather play commercial titles that DO matter

[J T]

Also, how many greatest of all time lists have indie games on them?

IGN: World of Goo

TIME: Braid

Game Developers Choice: Flower

to name a few.

[masteroftheclaw]

@Gamerforlife

Then from your stance on indie games would you also carry that on to say indie films don't "matter" either? That only the Hollywood hits of dubious quality mean anything?

I do get what you're saying about them not being able change the industry, of course. How could something that often goes unrecognized by the gaming majority ever cause a dramatic change?

However, that doesn't make the games lose validity in any way. Indie titles matter to the people who DO play them and there's quite a bit of us out there. It is really something to play a game and know someone who may be a lot like yourself has spent a ton of time and put their heart into it. There are games that you can really tell are a labor of love.

No, indie games aren't going to push the industry in an entirely new direction. But they might contribute at least a little something to the gaming masses. Games that started off as mods have become full-fledged and very popular releases (such as Killing Floor). In the Groove (dancing game) was based off of the open-source Stepmania and now finding an In the Groove machine in place of a Dance Dance Revolution isn't uncommon. So these examples are mostly games that are modified versions of something prior, but they were different enough to be something on their own and become popular off those new merits.

Indie games matter to some gamers. They aren't going to change the gaming landscape but maybe someone who is inspired to make an indie title will eventually go on to make something much greater. At the very least, indie games are coming out of hiding now because of downloadable game stores on each current gen console. If anything, indie games matter more now because of things like Playstation Network, Xbox Marketplace, and Steam bringing them out for the public to see.

[wakeup]

Many indie game makers don't put it the time or have the skills to create as good and as polished of a game compared to commercial games. Since you guys are saying games like World of Goo and Braid are commercial, I really don't remember ever liking an indie game except for flash games and simple, usually puzzle, games.

Indie games differ from indie music (the latter which produces a lot of great stuff) in that music is much easily to make and produce in a professional way. Games take a lot of work and effort and money and thus, most indie games turn out as epic fails.

[fastbilly1]

I can name one Indie game that made a huge difference to the history of video games. Its a little title called Narbacular Drop. Never heard of it? Well it is the game that became Portal.

[jfe2]

Like I said, Indie games don't matter. Sorry, I'm a realist and I'm just proving my point, not saying that they ALL suck, but generally speaking they ALL don't matter. Some of them are fun to play...if you have the time. Which I don't, because I'd rather play commercial titles that DO matter

I guess we will have to agree to disagree then. I'm not trying to say you are wrong in what you believe or anything, it just makes me sad that people miss out on great games because they don't think that they are "important" enough to play.

A great game is a great game, regardless of how much money was put into its development, or which major developer was involved in its creation.

[crux]

The only people arguing against indie games aren't actually arguing against indie games, but free games. An indie game is simply a video game that isn't funded through a publisher. Technically speaking the term is something of a misnomer, as some major developers are or have been independent, just as in film the term "indie films" is often misused as a term for "art films". Some more notable indie developers in particular are Insomniac Games (OddWorld, Spyro, Ratchet & Clank), Media Molecule (LittleBigPlanet), 5th Cell (Drawn to Life, Scribblenauts), and Level-5 (Professor Layton, Dragon Quest VIII).

The argument some of you are really looking for is against hobbyist developers. Logically speaking, hobbyists are more likely to have less motivation to put as much work into their games as a professional developer would. That said, there are still developers like Pixel who create masterpieces like Cave Story - for no charge. (As an aside, to say "Cave Story is really just a Metroid clone" is tangential to saying "Symphony of the Night is just a Metroid clone" and thus invalidates almost anything else you have to say.)

[RCBH928]

The only people arguing against indie games aren't actually arguing against indie games, but free games. An indie game is simply a video game that isn't funded through a publisher. Technically speaking the term is something of a misnomer, as some major developers are or have been independent, just as in film the term "indie films" is often misused as a term for "art films". Some more notable indie developers in particular are Insomniac Games (OddWorld, Spyro, Ratchet & Clank), Media Molecule (LittleBigPlanet), 5th Cell (Drawn to Life, Scribblenauts), and Level-5 (Professor Layton, Dragon Quest VIII).

The argument some of you are really looking for is against hobbyist developers. Logically speaking, hobbyists are more likely to have less motivation to put as much work into their games as a professional developer would. That said, there are still developers like Pixel who create masterpieces like Cave Story - for no charge. (As an aside, to say "Cave Story is really just a Metroid clone" is tangential to saying "Symphony of the Night is just a Metroid clone" and thus invalidates almost anything else you have to say.)

Yeah thats what I meant,