HULU TUBE - PHASING YOU OUT OF YOUTUBE

[vash23n]

Man, immigration is such a tough topic. I personally don't mind immigrants. I grew up in an area with a lot of farms and they mainly had Mexicans working them. Everyone used to bitch about it and I used to wonder what they would do without the immigrants who make shit money doing everything from picking crops to cleaning toilets - well they are taking jobs from Americans, they would reply. Really? I feel that if an American went to a farmer and said, "hey hire me, I am American so you won't have trouble with the law, and I have no problem making $3.00 an hour or working 80 hours a week because it helps me take care of my family," then maybe that would work. Maybe you would see a lot more Americans working these jobs and a lot less immigrants. Unfortunately, most Americans - and this is not necessarily a fault because I am one of them - demand a lot higher pay and benefits. Without immigrants, Americans taking these jobs would need to be paid more, which would raise the price of whatever product they are ultimately a part of producing - whether it is picking that crop or cleaning a bathroom at a fast food restaurant so that another employee can focus on making more burgers. Once prices go up, people will wish they had left well-enough alone.

I should mention right away - before I get destroyed for this post - that I realize there are plenty of Americans who pick crops and clean toilets and that I do not have any problem with these people or their professions. So places do things one way and other places do things another way. When I lived in Millville, NJ I was certainly happy not to have to pay $5.00 a tomato, which is what a lot of these farms grew.

[lordofduct]

You keep thinking I'm talking about immigrants. My family immigrated here, I'm not talking about that.

I'm not. I'm talkign about ILLEGAL immigrants. They snuck in.

I have NOOOOOOOOOO problem with them coming here. None what so ever. I welcome them with open arms. JUST ASK! I have friends, family, girlfriends, and a number of other close people who are immigrants from allllll over the world... they all went through the process. And it wasn't all that hard for them. A bit of a nuisance to a level, but no harder the hoops I jumped through through out my life. And don't think it's because "we had money"... oh oh oh... My friends and family have never had lots of money.



I've already stated, I don't agree with all the paperwork and processing they have to go through. Some of it is useless, others I think should put in place (for instance learning the local language which would assist you in locating a JOB). Yeah there needs a reform on these hypothetical "hoops" they have to jump through. BUT, this is a democracy, we put the laws there and we must abide them... or press a bill to alter them.

Ignoring the law completely because it's "shit", is still breaking the fucking law. There are consequences to breaking our laws. For ILLEGAL immigrants, it's deportation. Next time, try knocking first!



Case in point, if I want to move ANYWHERE outside of this country, I have to notify that country. Do the same in return.




This topic is over, and it shall return back to the original topic.

[jfrost]

Ignoring the law completely because it's "shit", is still breaking the fucking law. There are consequences to breaking our laws. For ILLEGAL immigrants, it's deportation. Next time, try knocking first!

Yeah, it's a shame you think that people are morally flawed and deserve to be punished just because they didn't comply with stupid government paperwork (which, BTW, everyone wishes it was just "paperwork"). They are criminals just because someone said so.

Well, one would hope that the DHS is now doing its job and storming in all restaurant kitchens all over the country to jail these felons, right? They had it coming.

But I agree with you, this topic is over.

[Ack]

Actually, I just want to make a note real quick. I'm glad people want to immigrate to my country to find work and a better life. That's great, and I support it. I think the amount of illegal immigration that occurs means we need to do some overhauling of our immigration system so that our closest neighbors that wish to immigrate can do so. But I dislike illegal immigration. Why? Simple.

Those drug cartels that everyone is escaping in Mexico? Many of the illegal immigrants that make it are given the tools necessary to make the journey by said cartels in exchange for doing certain kinds of work for them. Usually this means carrying illegal drugs and firearms over the border into my country. Sometimes it means agreeing to do sexual favors, even in the case of young children. And when someone is unable to afford the passage, they get abandoned. If they cannot afford their children's passage, their children are abandoned.

My friend had to do border security as part of a deployment for his military unit. He found abandoned infants. He caught six year olds carrying several kilos of cocaine. He encountered women who'd been raped and left to die. He was shot at repeatedly, mostly because he was there trying to stop this from happening. And yet someone who justify all that as perfectly fine?

Many of the illegal immigrants that come here doing these jobs are then forced to join organized criminal organizations to survive. Latin American gangs are some of the fastest growing groups on our side of the border, and in some cases they regularly feud with other minority gangs, resulting in property damage, injuries, and death. Sometimes with each other, and sometimes with innocent people. And yet this is fine?

Don't think this illegal immigration bit is just over them wanting to work for low wages in crappy jobs. Whatever, if they find that work acceptable, great. Somebody's got to do it, and I'm glad their willing to work as hard as they can to help themselves and their families live the American dream. But spreading Mexico's crime problems to the United States is not an acceptable method to me.

And the really funny thing? Mexico blames us for their people abandoning their country and aiding these cartels, while they don't attempt to stop it. Hell, their military has been recorded passing out maps to help keep illegal immigration happening. Why? Because so many of the immigrant population sends their money back home, helping to run Mexico's corrupt government. Yet someone America is bigoted for not wanting these problems?

Hell, once they're here, they use our hospitals, utilize our public services, and have their children here, which are given full rights as US citizens and get to attend our schools where we willing educate them in the language of their home nation. And we're being bigots? And don't take that as some slight against Spanish either, even though at the rate of increase in the numbers of people who speak it entering this country through legal or illegal means or by birth, I will need to learn it so that I can do my job to help the public in my chosen profession. But YOU DO NOT CALL US RACIST BIGOTS, you got me? Because there is a LOT more involved with this problem than you think.

[elvis]

Hahaha! I check back to this thread and see a page of "illegal immigration" banter. I had to double-check to make sure I clicked the right link, and didn't end up in some other discussion by mistake.

I nominate this thread for a "best derail" award. Well done!

[Jrecee]

"Yeah, it's a shame you think that people are morally flawed and deserve to be punished just because they didn't comply with stupid government paperwork (which, BTW, everyone wishes it was just "paperwork"). They are criminals just because someone said so."

Yep. That is what laws are. Someone says so and so they are. Maybe you don't agree with immigration laws in the U.S., and I'm sure they need work, but they are what they are. If someone has a problem with our rules then they shouldn't be coming here! We shouldn't have to ease up or give free range to anyone who wants to come here just because there are crappy countries that people want to leave. There are places all over the world with rediculous laws, and if you don't like those laws or don't want to observe them then you shouldn't be going there.

[vash23n]

Yeah, I definitely see that there are laws and, whether we like it or not, they must be followed. If we say screw it to one law and completely disregard it - I am talking a serious law not underage drinking or smoking pot - then it really does put a crack in the entire system and weaken the overall foundation. So the best thing is an overhaul of immigration laws, but how do we go about doing that? I have thought about this often, trying to figure out a way to solve the immigration situation from a legal standpoint. Unfortunately, I have no clue about lawmaking or politics. Would it be more fair to allow easier citizenship to Mexicans since they are our neighbors. Maybe a probationary citizenship that allows them to enter our country legally, work the jobs that no one is willing to do so that they can make money, have their families join them, and eventually become full citizens. Once they are full citizens, those low-end jobs they worked would become available for another wave of probationary immigrants... just thinking about this makes my head swim. I definitely see that it is very complicated, especially for someone without the political background like myself. It is much easier to suggest a bunch of solutions and just say go for it.

[Niode]

Hahaha! I check back to this thread and see a page of "illegal immigration" banter. I had to double-check to make sure I clicked the right link, and didn't end up in some other discussion by mistake.

I nominate this thread for a "best derail" award. Well done!

It happens a lot round here. You'll get used to it. Sit back and enjoy the ride.

[Mod_Man_Extreme]

Hahaha! I check back to this thread and see a page of "illegal immigration" banter. I had to double-check to make sure I clicked the right link, and didn't end up in some other discussion by mistake.

I nominate this thread for a "best derail" award. Well done!

It happens a lot round here. You'll get used to it. Sit back and enjoy the ride.

On the great space coaster.

[gradualmeltdown]

I like Fishsticks, in my mouth.