Sonofa... Why now?! My Xbox is dying :(

[17DaysOlderThanNES]

I once had my 360 die on me, the ANA chip set sail and gave me one ring. After some basic fixing trys, it gave me 3 rings right away when turning it on. Not good, but I already knew it wouldnt work, because the board needed a reflow. And thus I put the board into the good old oven, let it reflow, let it cool down again and put it back together with a lot of tiny mods for more airflow. As well as the aforementioned, nasty 12v.

You did WHAT? You used a convection oven to reflow solder!? Either you just hit the XBOX 360 blind luck jackpot, or I'm misunderstanding you here. If you actually heated the motherboard hot enough to reflow the solder, you would've ruined every chip and capacitor in the system. And for those saying "then how do they solder them to the board in the first place!?" and the answer is: they melt the solder and apply it to the board very quickly, before the heat can travel up the pins and heat the chip/capacitor.

What was also very important is replacing the shitty thermal paste from the factory with some silver compound thermal paste. Ever since I did that, the unit runs as well as before, or even better. The case barely gets warm, shovels out a lot of hot air concentrated. Cpu and Gpu flow have each their own and dont share it like in the ususal setup.

The shitty thermal paste thing is true (always use Arctic Silver 5, never use that shitty stuff most RROD kits come with). Futhermore, they often use too much or too little. When replacing it, ALWAYS remove EVERY SINGLE BIT from EVERYWHERE on the chip via toothpicks (to scrape off the bulk) and then fine cleaning with alcohol+q-tips. When applying, only put a grain of rice-sized stripe (half a grain for the smallest chip) and let the pressure of the heat sink spread it out (don't rub it around with your finger). Avoid any goo-gone style cleaners as they can prevent proper adherence of the thermal paste.

I just wish I could get myself to change fan speed on the CPU side down to 5v or something like that. The CPU is not the problem, it dosnt get as hot. Its the GPU that gets fryed, especially with the (really hot) DVD drive right on top of it.

You've got it backwards, it's the GPU that makes the DVD drive toast. In fact, many (most?) DVD drive failures are actually caused by the drive spindle seizing from getting so hot from the GPU. Putting the DVD drive above the GPU is the dumbest thing I have ever seen on so many levels. Not only did it mean the GPU didn't get a big enough heat sink (should be as big as the CPU one), it also acts like an electric range constantly cooking the DVD drive. I'm literally in disbelief at how incompetent Microsoft engineers are. They should all be shot.

So yeah, just thought i'd share that story. And as niode mentioned, cutting a trace on the motherboard permanently is a dirty hack and wont help you in the long run.

If the temp sensor is really boned, there's no other option. No matter what you do, it will not boot, it will always 2 light because it will always think it's overheated. Many 2 lights that happen after 3 light RROD fix are caused by people that did the repair wrong, but only in very rare instances is the CPU heatsink simply detached or dirty enough that it is actually overheating and not a dead sensor. As I stated in my post above, cutting the temp sensor doesn't necessarily spell death as long as you either mod the fans to run fast all the time or get a standalone cooler and remember to switch it on.

[MentalMan]

I once had my 360 die on me, the ANA chip set sail and gave me one ring. After some basic fixing trys, it gave me 3 rings right away when turning it on. Not good, but I already knew it wouldnt work, because the board needed a reflow. And thus I put the board into the good old oven, let it reflow, let it cool down again and put it back together with a lot of tiny mods for more airflow. As well as the aforementioned, nasty 12v.

You did WHAT? You used a convection oven to reflow solder!? Either you just hit the XBOX 360 blind luck jackpot, or I'm misunderstanding you here. If you actually heated the motherboard hot enough to reflow the solder, you would've ruined every chip and capacitor in the system. And for those saying "then how do they solder them to the board in the first place!?" and the answer is: they melt the solder and apply it to the board very quickly, before the heat can travel up the pins and heat the chip/capacitor.

Haha, yes I know it sounds crazy, downright insane. But, if done carefully it actually works. Keep in mind, I insulated and protected everything from the board, except the 3 target chips. Cpu, Gpu and the ANA chip all exposed to the heat flow. For a cheap, home made "reballing" if you will. Also, the oven is only preheated carefully, and then turned OFF. (ca. 230°) There is no direct heat, except what has accumulated in the oven. I put the board in, wrapped up and insulated, and left it in for I think 10-15 minutes.

Then carefully and slowly put it back out, on top of the oven, and didnt touch it for another hour. Until very carefully unpacking it from the 100% cotton shirts and a bit of aluminium foil to protect more. (Yup, again, that might sound crazy but it did not do any harm.)

I then after unwrapping it carefully checked every cap, chips, plastic parts in general and it looked 100% fine. And it smelt good

I can fully understand how this idea sounds insane, and it should only be considered as a last resort. (And dont worry, even after letting it cool I used protective glasses because of the chance some cap blows up.)

What was also very important is replacing the shitty thermal paste from the factory with some silver compound thermal paste. Ever since I did that, the unit runs as well as before, or even better. The case barely gets warm, shovels out a lot of hot air concentrated. Cpu and Gpu flow have each their own and dont share it like in the ususal setup.

The shitty thermal paste thing is true (always use Arctic Silver 5, never use that shitty stuff most RROD kits come with). Futhermore, they often use too much or too little. When replacing it, ALWAYS remove EVERY SINGLE BIT from EVERYWHERE on the chip via toothpicks (to scrape off the bulk) and then fine cleaning with alcohol+q-tips. When applying, only put a grain of rice-sized stripe (half a grain for the smallest chip) and let the pressure of the heat sink spread it out (don't rub it around with your finger). Avoid any goo-gone style cleaners as they can prevent proper adherence of the thermal paste.

Very good advice and fully agreed. I spend over an hour whiping both chips as shiny as huminly possible (alcohol), and remove any residue. And I just love spreading on thermal paste as best as possible. Dont know what it is about it, it's just great.

Especially agreed on arctic silver 5. Never use any of the other garbage.

I just wish I could get myself to change fan speed on the CPU side down to 5v or something like that. The CPU is not the problem, it dosnt get as hot. Its the GPU that gets fryed, especially with the (really hot) DVD drive right on top of it.

You've got it backwards, it's the GPU that makes the DVD drive toast. In fact, many (most?) DVD drive failures are actually caused by the drive spindle seizing from getting so hot from the GPU. Putting the DVD drive above the GPU is the dumbest thing I have ever seen on so many levels. Not only did it mean the GPU didn't get a big enough heat sink (should be as big as the CPU one), it also acts like an electric range constantly cooking the DVD drive. I'm literally in disbelief at how incompetent Microsoft engineers are. They should all be shot.

Heh, that is indeed the biggest incompetence in hardware engineering I have seen myself as well. And even if there was some sane thought involved, it seems like they just said fuck it, do it like that. And in result, the system counter acts itself and kills each and every important part of it. Kinda like a suicide machine, really.

Btw GPU heatsink, I once saw a guy putting a CPU 360 heatsink from a broken unit, on top of the GPU. The dvd drive obviously had to be put on the outside, and that was actually quite a nice idea if you dont care about the messyness of it all. But of course, only a tiny percentage wants to put up with that, and it dosnt change shit about the future.

So yeah, just thought i'd share that story. And as niode mentioned, cutting a trace on the motherboard permanently is a dirty hack and wont help you in the long run.

If the temp sensor is really boned, there's no other option. No matter what you do, it will not boot, it will always 2 light because it will always think it's overheated. Many 2 lights that happen after 3 light RROD fix are caused by people that did the repair wrong, but only in very rare instances is the CPU heatsink simply detached or dirty enough that it is actually overheating and not a dead sensor. As I stated in my post above, cutting the temp sensor doesn't necessarily spell death as long as you either mod the fans to run fast all the time or get a standalone cooler and remember to switch it on.

Oh I get it! I missunderstood this part, in that case it does make a lot of sense, a good bypass. And with the fan mod/third party equipment, that's perfectly fine.

[Niode]

Yes cutting the trace will stop the 360 from regulating it's own temperature. So either the fans will be stuck at full speed all the time, or they will be stuck in idle mode and not provide the required cooling to the 360. I would advise against cutting the trace. It's a temporary hack job at best. You'd have better luck replacing the temp sensor unit with one from a broken 360 for a more permanent fix.

yeah, let's see you do that, it's integrated into the CPU. Could you please know WTF you're talking about before opening your mouth (typing a response)? Why are you a moderator again? All I've seen you do is misinform people and needlessly lock threads.

You want to be careful who you insult buddy. I am a moderator because I am well respected in this community. Y'know that thing, respect, that thing that you so desperately want but can never achieve because you are a complete asshat. You want people to respect you on this forum? Stop being a self-righteous asshole. You want to know why people will not listen to you on here? Because you don't have respect for anybody else on this forum, you believe that you're right, every time even if you have to step on every single person's toes just to prove it.

If you must know, I was being ironic with my reply about replacing the temp sensor unit.

[17DaysOlderThanNES]

I once had my 360 die on me, the ANA chip set sail and gave me one ring. After some basic fixing trys, it gave me 3 rings right away when turning it on. Not good, but I already knew it wouldnt work, because the board needed a reflow. And thus I put the board into the good old oven, let it reflow, let it cool down again and put it back together with a lot of tiny mods for more airflow. As well as the aforementioned, nasty 12v.

You did WHAT? You used a convection oven to reflow solder!? Either you just hit the XBOX 360 blind luck jackpot, or I'm misunderstanding you here. If you actually heated the motherboard hot enough to reflow the solder, you would've ruined every chip and capacitor in the system. And for those saying "then how do they solder them to the board in the first place!?" and the answer is: they melt the solder and apply it to the board very quickly, before the heat can travel up the pins and heat the chip/capacitor.

Haha, yes I know it sounds crazy, downright insane. But, if done carefully it actually works. Keep in mind, I insulated and protected everything from the board, except the 3 target chips. Cpu, Gpu and the ANA chip all exposed to the heat flow. For a cheap, home made "reballing" if you will. Also, the oven is only preheated carefully, and then turned OFF. (ca. 230°) There is no direct heat, except what has accumulated in the oven. I put the board in, wrapped up and insulated, and left it in for I think 10-15 minutes.

Then carefully and slowly put it back out, on top of the oven, and didnt touch it for another hour. Until very carefully unpacking it from the 100% cotton shirts and a bit of aluminium foil to protect more. (Yup, again, that might sound crazy but it did not do any harm.)

I then after unwrapping it carefully checked every cap, chips, plastic parts in general and it looked 100% fine. And it smelt good

I can fully understand how this idea sounds insane, and it should only be considered as a last resort. (And dont worry, even after letting it cool I used protective glasses because of the chance some cap blows up.)

Ah, I see, so you basically did the heat gun method, but with an oven instead. I was considering trying the heat gun method back when I was working at Play N Trade, but between buying the heat gun, the time it would take to do the repair, and the very touch and go nature of the repair, I decided we probably couldn't keep it profitable enough to be worth it. I mean, as it was I could barely keep up with 3 light RROD. There was one point where we had 10+ systems almost every week. Madness.

I just wish I could get myself to change fan speed on the CPU side down to 5v or something like that. The CPU is not the problem, it dosnt get as hot. Its the GPU that gets fryed, especially with the (really hot) DVD drive right on top of it.

You've got it backwards, it's the GPU that makes the DVD drive toast. In fact, many (most?) DVD drive failures are actually caused by the drive spindle seizing from getting so hot from the GPU. Putting the DVD drive above the GPU is the dumbest thing I have ever seen on so many levels. Not only did it mean the GPU didn't get a big enough heat sink (should be as big as the CPU one), it also acts like an electric range constantly cooking the DVD drive. I'm literally in disbelief at how incompetent Microsoft engineers are. They should all be shot.

Heh, that is indeed the biggest incompetence in hardware engineering I have seen myself as well. And even if there was some sane thought involved, it seems like they just said fuck it, do it like that. And in result, the system counter acts itself and kills each and every important part of it. Kinda like a suicide machine, really.

Btw GPU heatsink, I once saw a guy putting a CPU 360 heatsink from a broken unit, on top of the GPU. The dvd drive obviously had to be put on the outside, and that was actually quite a nice idea if you dont care about the messyness of it all. But of course, only a tiny percentage wants to put up with that, and it dosnt change shit about the future.

I can tell you exactly what happened:

Industrial Designer R-tard: I think the case should look like this

Engineer: where are we gonna put the DVD drive?

Industrial Designer R-tard: right here *points to GPU heatsink space*

Engineer: that's where the heat sink goes

Industrial Designer R-tard: WE MUST HAVE THE DAINTY LITTLE CASE! WE CANNOT MAKE IT LARGER!

Engineer: hey, Overseeing Manager, this ain't gonna work

Overseeing Manager: I'm with the Industrial Designer, WE NEED DAINTY CASES!!!!

*epic fail ensues*

I really hope the Industrial Designers I work with when I move to NYC aren't as clueless as the ones I've worked with in the past. They literally don't understand Engineering in any way, shape or form.

Yes cutting the trace will stop the 360 from regulating it's own temperature. So either the fans will be stuck at full speed all the time, or they will be stuck in idle mode and not provide the required cooling to the 360. I would advise against cutting the trace. It's a temporary hack job at best. You'd have better luck replacing the temp sensor unit with one from a broken 360 for a more permanent fix.

yeah, let's see you do that, it's integrated into the CPU. Could you please know WTF you're talking about before opening your mouth (typing a response)? Why are you a moderator again? All I've seen you do is misinform people and needlessly lock threads.

You want to be careful who you insult buddy. I am a moderator because I am well respected in this community. Y'know that thing, respect, that thing that you so desperately want but can never achieve because you are a complete asshat. You want people to respect you on this forum? Stop being a self-righteous asshole. You want to know why people will not listen to you on here? Because you don't have respect for anybody else on this forum, you believe that you're right, every time even if you have to step on every single person's toes just to prove it.

You should really take your own advice there, pal.

If you recall, you struck first, and have continued to do so. YOU have been stepping on MY toes and belittling my comments since day 1. If you scan the threads, I've solved more issues than anyone else has since I've been here, rather than asserting 100% some rampant speculation out of my ass like many members do. If people would stop getting so bent out of shape because I know what I'm talking about, thinks would roll a little smoother. I mean, shit, I'm a Mechanical Engineer that formerly worked STRICTLY as a console repair technician for Play N Trade.

Funny how me and MentalMan can get along fine, seeing as I'm such a dick to everyone.

If you must know, I was being ironic with my reply about replacing the temp sensor unit.

riiiiiiiight

[Niode]

You should really take your own advice there, pal.

If you recall, you struck first, and have continued to do so.

Nope..

I've solved more issues than anyone else has since I've been here

Oh well done. Do you want a medal?

If people would stop getting so bent out of shape because I know what I'm talking about, thinks would roll a little smoother. I mean, shit, I'm a Mechanical Engineer that formerly worked STRICTLY as a console repair technician for Play N Trade.

No, people are getting bent out of shape because you are an utter jerk. You won't accept that any other possible scenario other than the one that you state is possible. I've stated this before, but if you act like a twat and belittle others, it doesn't matter if you're right people won't listen to or respect you.

[CRTGAMER]

This guy did a thermal sensor mod on a 360.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL8G42rz6IA

It seems like the dustoff and replacing that overheated dried up thermal paste with some new goop was the ideal fix. "jfe2" as long as that thermal diode is working, I wouldn't "Sweat" (sorry) it or have that trace cut either.

[17DaysOlderThanNES]

You should really take your own advice there, pal.

If you recall, you struck first, and have continued to do so.

Nope..

Every post from you has been a smart ass backhanded insult. If you can't see that, I have no words.

I've solved more issues than anyone else has since I've been here

Oh well done. Do you want a medal?

No, I want you to get off my ass and stop accusing me of trolling when most of what I've been doing is helping people. The only people I really berate are the ones that just run into threads spouting off incorrect information, which is just going to misinform more people (if you'll notice, thread views are often 10x~100x or more than the post count). This is why wikipedia claims Sharpie will mess up CD-Rs (sure didn't mess up my 10 year old disc I burned when I first got a CD burner in 2000) and everyone thinks CD-Rs damage Dreamcasts even though there's no sound logic behind it (other than a miniscule addition of some laser movement due to the lower data density).

If people would stop getting so bent out of shape because I know what I'm talking about, thinks would roll a little smoother. I mean, shit, I'm a Mechanical Engineer that formerly worked STRICTLY as a console repair technician for Play N Trade.

No, people are getting bent out of shape because you are an utter jerk. You won't accept that any other possible scenario other than the one that you state is possible. I've stated this before, but if you act like a twat and belittle others, it doesn't matter if you're right people won't listen to or respect you.

If I'm right, I'm right, it doesn't matter how nice I am about it. So you're going to fix your system the wrong way because the guy that told you the right way to do it wasn't nice? OK. Like I said, I haven't gone off on anyone that has treated me with respect, but this forum has the worst set of Mod Gods I have ever seen, EVER.

This guy did a thermal sensor mod on a 360.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL8G42rz6IA

That's a more sophisticated version of what I was suggesting. If he were to cut the trace, this method would yield the closest to normal operation compared to running the fans full blast all the time or using an external fan. However, at the same time, this is somewhat complicated and I wouldn't recommend it for an amateur. If he were to mess it up, he could very well permanently screw his XBOX.

It seems like the dustoff and replacing that overheated dried up thermal paste with some new goop was the ideal fix. "jfe2" as long as that thermal diode is working, I wouldn't "Sweat" (sorry) it or have that trace cut either.

As I said before, occasionally the factory thermal paste will separate and form an air gap between the chip and the heatsink. If this happens, it will give a genuine 2 light. This is rare, but it could be what happened in this case. It happens much more frequently if you use your system vertically or if you jar it by dropping it or moving it around alot. As long as it works, there's no need to cut the trace, but if his temperature sensor does crap out and nothing prevents the 2 light RROD, there's no other option besides cutting the trace or throwing it in the trash.

[CRTGAMER]

I've solved more issues than anyone else has since I've been here

Oh well done. Do you want a medal?

No, I want you to get off my ass and stop accusing me of trolling when most of what I've been doing is helping people. The only people I really berate are the ones that just run into threads spouting off incorrect information, which is just going to misinform more people (if you'll notice, thread views are often 10x~100x or more than the post count). This is why wikipedia claims Sharpie will mess up CD-Rs (sure didn't mess up my 10 year old disc I burned when I first got a CD burner in 2000) and everyone thinks CD-Rs damage Dreamcasts even though there's no sound logic behind it (other than a miniscule addition of some laser movement due to the lower data density).

When you troll, take credit, disrupt other points of view and piss off enough people you should get this medal.


Can you get off the field and hit the showers already?

[Arbitern1]

17 Days has some serious ego issues...

[emwearz]

17DaysOlderThanNES you have been under my skin for awhile, most of the time when you think 'oh im so smart' the question has been answered, maybe not with the details you may throw it but the problem had a solution, and while by all means do the nice thing and give a answer, but no one gives a shit about anything else you have to say about how below everyone else is than you, you seem to think you're the 'go to man' on facts or something, can I see this P.H.D you seem to have on gaming.

Also on the case of Niode, He is not only a respected member of the community because of the fact his a stand up guy, he is also a very knowledgeable member who has helped countless people and walks people through problems in the irc all the time.

Also just on the point of you helping more people than other people here, oh please, pull your head out of your ass and stop being a tool.

It's a relaxed community, there is no need to be a prick when people are trying to help.