Together Retro: Sonic & Knuckles

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alienjesus
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Re: Together Retro: Sonic & Knuckles

Post by alienjesus »

Gunstar Green wrote:It's the first time in Sonic a jungle zone looked like a jungle


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Sonic the Hedgehog for Master System might be my second favourite in the series, after Sonic 2 for Mega Drive

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I also think this looks way more jungley than Angel Island Zone.
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ZeroAX
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Re: Together Retro: Sonic & Knuckles

Post by ZeroAX »

alienjesus wrote:Sonic the Hedgehog for Master System might be my second favourite in the series, after Sonic 2 for Mega Drive


damn that game is good 8) . Maybe that should have been on together retro xD
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Gunstar Green
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Re: Together Retro: Sonic & Knuckles

Post by Gunstar Green »

alienjesus wrote:
Gunstar Green wrote:It's the first time in Sonic a jungle zone looked like a jungle


Image

Sonic the Hedgehog for Master System might be my second favourite in the series, after Sonic 2 for Mega Drive

Image

I also think this looks way more jungley than Angel Island Zone.


I guess you got me there. I was mainly referring to starting zones and worded things badly.

And yeah, 8-bit Sonic is one of my favorite games on the Master System and one of my favorite Sonic games as well. I'm embarrassed for not thinking about it. Ancient really made a great little platformer.
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GSZX1337
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Re: Together Retro: Sonic & Knuckles

Post by GSZX1337 »

It's been a while, but I thought I'd ask about some of the criticisms towards this game:

Luke wrote:Sonic and Knuckles...no like. There are loops and such, but it doesn't seem "Sonic" at all. People who like this game but complain about the Labyrinth zone in the original...well, I 'l never understand them.

How do they not seem like Sonic stages? While they do have a bit more of an emphasis on platforming, they do still factor in Sonic's speed. A couple examples that come to mind are Lava Reef Zone's upside down ramps which turn you around and the second act of Sandopolis Zone where you have to move quickly from one side of the screen to the other to keep from getting crushed by the rising sand.

I also like Labyrinth Zone for whatever that's worth.

...and going out of your way to find special zones just doesn't mix with the previous Sonic games.

Really? That's one of the things I liked most about Sonic 3 & Knuckles. The giant rings made the ring count merely a scoring element and prevents new players from experiencing the frustration of losing all of their rings right before the stage end/star post. If one knows where to find the giant rings, they can become Super Sonic about as quickly as they could in Sonic the Hedgehog 2. Having said rings grant you 50 regular rings made becoming Super Sonic quick. Basically, I see the giant rings as a boon.

Gunstar Green wrote:The Sonic fandom is a screwed up entity for several reasons, the most critical being that Sonic means different things to different people due to how radically and often it has changed. Add western influenced products like cartoons and comics which have their own fanbases on top of the already schizophrenic games and you have a very screwed up, angry, broken base who all want the franchise to go in completely different directions.

I think this shows the different schools of thought Sega and Nintendo have when it comes to their mascots. Nintendo has Mario very carefully guarded, leading to fewer but generally higher quality games, whereas Sonic is treated more like a comic character (Why yes, I do know he has a comic you smart ass) in a manner similar to Spider-Man, another character I love. Many artists/teams/studios are given access to this character and lore, resulting more content with mixed results in terms of quality.

ZeroAX wrote:I started a full playthough of the game, but my Mega Drive froze in the marble garden zone (gee, even my console can't stand the worst zone in classic sonic history).

-Hydrocity Zone: The water level in Sonic, or further proof why S&K is the superior Sonic game just for NOT having a single drop of water in the entire game

What's wrong with Marble Garden Zone or having water in a Sonic game? :?

I will admit that I always hated those goddamned spinny platforms in the former.
Xeogred wrote:Sonic 3... I wonder if my feelings for it would be different if 80% of the music didn't suck. Don't get wrong, Michael Jackson rocks, but the MJ/90's pop-isms here are just awful! I'm shocked the final boss theme between this and S&K originated here.


Luke wrote:Soundtrack stinks too.


-more comments about the music sucking-


Whaaat? How does it suck? Do y'all not like the trotting bass in Ice Cap Zone, the kick ass invincibility music in S&K, or the general funkiness of Marble Garden Zone? Aside from some shit tracks (the title/invincibility/Super Sonic theme from Sonic 3 for one), Sonic 3 & Knuckles has some of best music in the series.
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Key-Glyph
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Re: Together Retro: Sonic & Knuckles

Post by Key-Glyph »

alienjesus wrote:Sonic the Hedgehog for Master System might be my second favourite in the series, after Sonic 2 for Mega Drive. ...I also think this looks way more jungley than Angel Island Zone.
Ah! Touché! I am not familiar with the SMS Sonic titles, so your knowledge trumps mine there. I'd also forgotten about Aquatic Ruin; you're right, it's realistically jungle-esque. On a random aside, I'm realizing that I always thought of Aquatic Ruin as being a coldish, non-tropical forest. The intention was probably for something warmer, huh?

I'm guessing the look of Emerald Hill and some of the other surrounding zones overwhelm the more realistic stuff in my mind, because it's the candy-colored brights I seem to remember most about Sonic 2.
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KayJay
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Re: Together Retro: Sonic & Knuckles

Post by KayJay »

I played through the original trilogy of Sonic games last year.


I beat Sonic 1, 2 & 3, but i got to Sonic & Knuckles and stopped, mostly due to boredom. xD


However, i did feel that the level design was the best in the series, up to that point. :D
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Ivo
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Re: Together Retro: Sonic & Knuckles

Post by Ivo »

Hey, I'm late to the party (well really late counting on when the game was released).

Sonic on the Megadrive was part of my childhood, and I have fond memories of Sonic and Sonic 2 (the later which I played with my brother, which generally didn't play console games that much).
I also remember finishing Sonic 3 without owning it, as my dad went to talk with a game store owner about business in general for a couple of times, and I tagged along and managed to finish it as it allowed to save progress (besides it is on the short side of things and I was well trained from Sonic 2).

For some reason, I didn't even know that Sonic & Knuckles for a few years. In any case I haven't played it until now (20 years late apparently).

I started and finished S&K today, with Sonic and the 7 emeralds and thoroughly enjoyed it.

I didn't like Sandopolis very much and I can understand people getting frustrated with it.

Conversely, I really liked Lava Reef and Sky Sanctuary.

Ending related discussion spoilered
I had played all Sonic Advance (1,2,3) and Sonic Rush, so the epic boss fights at the end weren't really new to me, but I can imagine it would have been a set of very cool boss fights (it still felt epic to me even though I had played the versions of it that appear in Advance). I'm sort of confused now as I don't remember if Sonic 3 by itself had a boss fight like that (meaning Super Sonic flying in space), but I think not. They are definitely featured in the GBA games though.


For whatever reason, I think I liked S&K more than the Advance games (which I also thoroughly enjoyed). Maybe it was just because of the nostalgia factor - the music, playing with a controller. There are parts of the handheld games I played which I liked better (particularly if compared against Sandopolis :P). I really recommend the Advance games. Some of them have Chaos Emerald stages like Sonic 2 (which I think are the ones that make more sense in a Sonic game), and I think in Advance 2 most if not all boss fights are "on the run" which is also really cool.
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Gunstar Green
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Re: Together Retro: Sonic & Knuckles

Post by Gunstar Green »

Ivo wrote:
I had played all Sonic Advance (1,2,3) and Sonic Rush, so the epic boss fights at the end weren't really new to me, but I can imagine it would have been a set of very cool boss fights (it still felt epic to me even though I had played the versions of it that appear in Advance). I'm sort of confused now as I don't remember if Sonic 3 by itself had a boss fight like that (meaning Super Sonic flying in space), but I think not. They are definitely featured in the GBA games though.


Definitely. The tradition started here for better or worse. All the Dimps developed games do it as far as I know.

Most of the 3D games have Super Sonic final boss fights as well though usually without needing to collect anything.


It was really amazing at the time. It left a big impression on me and is still one of my favorite endings to any game.
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Re: Together Retro: Sonic & Knuckles

Post by Xeogred »

GSZX1337 wrote:
Xeogred wrote:Sonic 3... I wonder if my feelings for it would be different if 80% of the music didn't suck. Don't get wrong, Michael Jackson rocks, but the MJ/90's pop-isms here are just awful! I'm shocked the final boss theme between this and S&K originated here.
Whaaat? How does it suck? Do y'all not like the trotting bass in Ice Cap Zone, the kick ass invincibility music in S&K, or the general funkiness of Marble Garden Zone? Aside from some shit tracks (the title/invincibility/Super Sonic theme from Sonic 3 for one), Sonic 3 & Knuckles has some of best music in the series.

Sounds like you nitpicked some random stuff. If you read more of the thread you'd see I love S&K's music, Ice Cap zone, etc. It's Sonic 3 specifically I was ragging on, but you mention Ice Cap... and I specifically mentioned that's the one I love a few times. :P

Anyways, I'm totally with some people above on the Master System games, those two Sonic games are seriously pretty cool.
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Gunstar Green
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Re: Together Retro: Sonic & Knuckles

Post by Gunstar Green »

Sonic 2 on the Master System is way better than it was on Game Gear, mainly because you can see what the heck you're doing and the difficulty isn't bananas, but it's ultimately not as polished as the first game.

It also lacks a soundtrack from Yuzo Koshiro (Bridge Zone, so damn catchy). I do however like the 8-bit rendition of Toot Toot Sonic Warrior in Green Hills Zone (totally original name, good job guys).

Aspect took over the 8-bit Sonics from Ancient after the first game and they're pretty hit and miss as a developer.
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