Anyone switching to a credit union with what's going on?

[o.pwuaioc]

*snip*

I'd love to fix it - but you see the problem and think it's the solution.

Right now a BA doesn't have the power it used to. There's too many of them out there. We've had the situation you described for far too long - so now TONS of people have those 4 year degrees and they are all fighting over the same jobs.

We need to encourage people to seek other alternatives. We need more plumbers, carpenters, craftsman, electricians, masons, automotive technicians, etc. We need people with skills that can be applied to the industries that have never demanded more workers than they do right now.

When I got hired for my job, my employer even told me that they didn't need me to fax them a copy of my college degree - they just wanted me for my work experience and skill set. I love having a degree but it's just icing on the cake these days.

There ARE jobs out there - but a lot of them aren't the types that need people with four year degrees in philosophy.

I don't disagree on this. Not everyone should have a philosophy degree. Hell, there are too many lawyers. However, there is a significant number of people deep in college debt. As someone mentioned earlier, they can't even file for bankruptcy, which in and of itself isn't even a complete walk-away, since it seriously hurts your credit for what, seven years?

A true fix would only come from a major overhaul of the educational system all the way down to the primary level. But in the meantime, to jump start the economy, a task for more important than some soap-box "personal responsibility", reducing student loan debt is a good temporary fix.

[Flake]

That loan was given to the student by selling a bond to a private citizen or a corporation.

So you reduce that debt and what happens? You wipe out wealth for someone who entered into an agreement where they lent that money to the student indirectly.

The person who wants to renege on their part of the deal benefits - while the person that made it all possible for them loses their principle and return.

Yeah, that'll help the economy and spur further investment.

[o.pwuaioc]

That loan was given to the student by selling a bond to a private citizen or a corporation.

So you reduce that debt and what happens? You wipe out wealth for someone who entered into an agreement where they lent that money to the student indirectly.

The person who wants to renege on their part of the deal benefits - while the person that made it all possible for them loses their principle and return.

Yeah, that'll help the economy and spur further investment.

"wipe out someone's wealth" - rather generous with the apocalyptic language, aren't we?

[Flake]

Wealth is a term that simply means 'financial assets'.

For instance, I have a total wealth that is X dollars. That factors in my bank accounts, my truck, and my total property.

However, X dollars (in my case, at least) does not automatically equal wealthy.

So no apocalyptic language, see?

But you need to understand that one person's debt is another person's projected revenue. Just wiping it out means that someone else is losing - a private citizen or the taxpayer. I know you want this to be easy but it isn't - solving a systemic problem never is.

[mjmjr25]

a TON of spot on stuff

The reason we "are falling behind" if you will, is not poor economic policy, or tax codes or anything of that nature. It is a fundamental rift with hard work and solution based thinking. We have been too wealthy of a nation for too long and we are spoiled.

Do this: Drive by a section 8 housing development (I assume we all know what exactly these are?). Count the empty beer bottles in the playground. Count the number of i-phones. Count the mom's smoking cigarrettes. Count the kids playing wii's. Count the 7 year olds with cell phones. Count the 9 yo w/$200 shoes.

That is what's wrong. We've been too successful and we've been able to provide services and benefits to people who have been bred to be lazy. The new deal programs initially were for hard working people who are down on their luck. This is no longer the case - not by any stretch.

We classify too many people as disabled, i'm sorry. Cliff-jumping into shallow-water and breaking your ankle, and getting it fused did not entitle you to $1,200 a month for the rest of your life in 1940 (adjusted for inflation)...but it does now (my uncle.) There are literally tens of thousands of cases like that and similar.

Flake has seen some shit in this world, he's been to places where you either fight to survive, you fight to work, you fight for shelter, you fight for everything - all-day, everyday. There is no "they turned me down for a job 5 times - i'm done with it, it's bullshit." Because if that is the answer, then they literally die. Here, we just coddle.

I've been on missions trips to dirt-poor countries, most recently Mexico, watching kids drink rain water from tin roofs - and then I to hear people piss and moan that this guy has that, meanwhile I have nothing. Damnit, wake up, work hard. This place turned you down, go somewhere else and apply. Your community has no jobs? Move.

There is a difference between working hard and failing, and failing to work hard. I know this is going to sound pretty damn rude to some of you - but i'm just shocked at what i've read in this thread, it's really quite astounding how entitled so many of us feel.

My director says the same thing after every problem I bring him. "And, whats the solution?" Its easy to say whats wrong, its easy to complain, its easy to feel sorry - those are all normal things - what used to separate this country, was following it up with a solution. Now we just do the complain part. Sad.

[o.pwuaioc]

That is what's wrong. We've been too successful and we've been able to provide services and benefits to people who have been bred to be lazy. The new deal programs initially were for hard working people who are down on their luck. This is no longer the case - not by any stretch.

You don't see too much argument from me, but like Wall Street, let's change the system. Fortunately for all of us, social programs like cheap housing and disability make up only a very small percentage of our budget, so if we're trying to cut costs, you're complaining about the minnows while the piranha's have their way.

There is no "they turned me down for a job 5 times - i'm done with it, it's bullshit."

Haven't seen that here at all.

I've been on missions trips to dirt-poor countries, most recently Mexico, watching kids drink rain water from tin roofs - and then I to hear people piss and moan that this guy has that, meanwhile I have nothing. Damnit, wake up, work hard. This place turned you down, go somewhere else and apply. Your community has no jobs? Move.

Easy to say if you have money to move. What happens if you can't afford to move? I spent so much money moving from California to New York, it's outrageous. And I was fortunate enough to be able to leave some books at my sister's so I didn't have to sell off what was crucial for my career.

My director says the same thing after every problem I bring him. "And, whats the solution?" Its easy to say whats wrong, its easy to complain, its easy to feel sorry - those are all normal things - what used to separate this country, was following it up with a solution. Now we just do the complain part. Sad.

Granted we've bred a younger generation to do this, but you're not really looking if you think that's true. So many people out there do work there ass off, do try their hardest. To say that people only complain is just out of touch with reality. Fact: there are more people than jobs. That's a fact. Fact: not everyone can afford to move to where the jobs are. That's a fact. Fact: Republicans have repeatedly blocked bills that would stir up jobs, while corporations that were given money to hire never have. Those are facts. The system is so fucked right now, that just saying "get off yer lazy ass and move!" is so unrealistic, that not even George Lucas could make a movie out of it.

[Hatta]

Cliff-jumping into shallow-water and breaking your ankle, and getting it fused did not entitle you to $1,200 a month for the rest of your life in 1940

Crashing the world economy didn't entitle you to millions of dollars in bonuses in 1940 either. In terms of perverse incentives has clearly done more damage than the other. I'd be a lot more sympathetic to complaints about abuses by the lower classes if you gave proportional concern to the much larger abuses of the upper classes.

I've been on missions trips to dirt-poor countries, most recently Mexico, watching kids drink rain water from tin roofs

Wouldn't the world be a better place if those kids could get a college education without risking a lifetime of debt bondage?

Its easy to say whats wrong, its easy to complain, its easy to feel sorry - those are all normal things - what used to separate this country, was following it up with a solution.

And what's your solution? Continued subservience to the elites? In case you're unaware, there is a pretty specific and reasonable list of suggestions proposed by the OWS people. Which of those suggestions lead you to believe these people are just complaining for complaining's sake?

The system is so fucked right now, that just saying "get off yer lazy ass and move!" is so unrealistic, that not even George Lucas could make a movie out of it.

"Get a job" is todays "let them eat cake".

[MrPopo]

I've been on missions trips to dirt-poor countries, most recently Mexico, watching kids drink rain water from tin roofs

Wouldn't the world be a better place if those kids could get a college education without risking a lifetime of debt bondage?

Not necessarily. We probably wouldn't be any better off if everyone had a college education, because at the end of the day there's only so many white collar jobs to be had. We still need a lot of people in the service industy. Hell, we might be worse off, as that could be more people who see manual labor jobs as benieth them.

[Hatta]

Good. That will cause an increase in wages for these jobs no one else wants to do. Which is really what should be happening anyway. The hard, nasty, unavoidable jobs should be paid more than the cushy sit on your ass all day white collar jobs.

[MrPopo]

Good. That will cause an increase in wages for these jobs no one else wants to do. Which is really what should be happening anyway. The hard, nasty, unavoidable jobs should be paid more than the cushy sit on your ass all day white collar jobs.

I disagree. Jobs should pay based upon the availability of people with the required skillset. If only 10 people are qualified to perform a job then it should pay far more than a job that 10 million people are qualified to perform. And many of these cushy, sit-on-your-ass-all-day white collar jobs require a lot of training to be an effective worker.