Obama wins Nobel Prize

[Limewater]

how is that different from: "for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples." (what Obama was awarded for)

I'm not saying there haven't been stupid Nobel Peace Prizes given in the past. But the award is meant to go...

"to the person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses."

Those nominating and selecting him for the award have said quite clearly that they have departed from this stated purpose in nominating Obama. President Obama was awarded for something he hasn't done yet in an effort to manipulate him into doing it.

That puts him in a terribly uncomfortable position. Between accepting the award and not accepting the award, I think both options were pretty bad. He handled it about as well as anyone could, though, making things less bad than they could have been.

[Limewater]

Yeah I did phrase that a little weird. I basically meant that, in order to get ourselves out of some of the trouble we are in lately, it is going to take some tough choices and some tough action. I believe some of the choices Obama is making may piss some people off, but we need a president right now who is willing to make decisions that, even if they don't make everyone happy and even if they don't assure he will be reelected, will help the country climb out of the hole we dug (or was dug for us).

See, I don't see President Obama making tough decisions or pissing people off. He was doomed to piss people off when he campaigned on promising everyone free ponies, rainbows, and unicorns. He's working on the free ponies, but people are pissed that the unicorns just aren't going to happen.

There are a lot of things that have hurt President Obama's popularity. He said he would get a dog from the humane society, but instead got a rare, expensive pure-breed showdog. He claimed that his stimulus bill would prevent unemployment going above eight percent. This claim proved to be very wrong. Now, I can't get too mad at the President's administration for not having a crystal ball, but that doesn't stop a lot of Americans from doing so. He promised to close gitmo, but hasn't done it.

Probably the hugest thing, though, that has hurt his popularity is the health care reform bill. The idea of it was very, very popular during the election and at the start of his presidency. Most Americans favor reform. But at that time, the idea of health care reform was pleasantly free from messy details. When details of the plan actually emerged, a lot of people have been very disappointed. Those in opposition to the plan have also been very successful at convincing the apathetic as well.

These are the sorts of things that have hurt Obama's numbers. These are cases where he made promises and statements during his campaign (except for the unemployment thing) and has not delivered.

President Obama's fall in popularity is no more a sign of good, well-directed leadership than former President Bush's fall in popularity.

[Luke]

Ahem, Ladies and gentlemen, (I'm guessing mostly gentlemen), just wanted to get on my soapbox for a quick second. I'm against talking politics for two reasons: I don't have a PhD in Poly-Sci, and I've never held office. That said, I also don't usually listen to people's opinions on politics either. Having opinions about politics is great, but unless someone is either experienced in it, or highly educated in it, opinions don't mean squat. Here's my uneducated and inexperienced opinion:

We haven't had a leader as a President in decades.
Case in point, Carter. Great President, horrible leader. Clinton, great President, awful leader.
Now, who is the last great leader we've had?

JFK? Possibly. The man set extraordinary goals, and followed them out. This country is founded on revolution, but the only place I've seen true revolution in the past three decades was in Germany, when they tore down the wall.

I guess what it gets down to for me is that Obama's call for "Hope and Change" is nonsense. Nothing against Obama, as I'm sure his lackey's (as most Presidents) form his opinions for him. I'm not an anarchist either, I would just like to see a President stir the pot a little. Move society forward. The last three Presidents moved society back.

I don't want "Hope", I want action. It wouldn't bother me if I disagreed with a real leaders actions either. If we had a true leader and he/she said, "In three years, the United States of America will have a colony of 1,000 Americans living on the moon", I'd be all up for it. Is it a good idea? Probably not. But I'd support it. Cutting red tape is for CEO's not the leader of our Country.

And think about if the President did something that needs to be done? Imagine, you turn on the television and the President announces in a press conference, "I understand that health care is a problem in the United States. It is a problem that needs to be addressed, and confronted. Equally, if not greater, there are larger concerns for humanity at this moment. As your President, I guarantee that in 8 years, we will find a cure for cancer".

Yeah, that's a stretch. But putting a man on the moon was also a huge stretch when JFK said he would do it.

I feel ashamed that I live in the "Greatest Country on Earth" and we still have children going to sleep without a bed and a full stomach, while people who literally put a ball through a hoop make more money and have more influence on children than pediatricians.


I'm up for discussion on leadership, and how we lack it in a President, but I don't want to discuss politics, that is, unless you are experienced or highly educated in it. Let us keep it civil, and with thought.

[Jrecee]

I dunno, I think tackling healthcare is a pretty big issue. And he's pretty deep into the issue not even a year into his first term. Whether you agree with it or not, it's something no recent presidents have tackled at this level.

Maybe it's not as earth shattering as a moon landing (is that a pun?) but we have so many technical breakthroughs these days, it's hard to impress anyone. I mean Clinton and Gore really pushed the internet, so I'd say that's the last big technical achievement that a president can "take credit" for.

I'm curious if there were people as opposed to shooting for the moon (definitely a pun) during the 1960s as there are people who are opposed to Obama's healthcare plan.

[Luke]

I dunno, I think tackling healthcare is a pretty big issue. And he's pretty deep into the issue not even a year into his first term. Whether you agree with it or not, it's something no recent presidents have tackled at this level.

Maybe it's not as earth shattering as a moon landing (is that a pun?) but we have so many technical breakthroughs these days, it's hard to impress anyone. I mean Clinton and Gore really pushed the internet, so I'd say that's the last big technical achievement that a president can "take credit" for.

I'm curious if there were people as opposed to shooting for the moon (definitely a pun) during the 1960s as there are people who are opposed to Obama's healthcare plan.

Not to worry, I'm not going to be an Internet asshole and argue with you sentence by sentence.

Crap. Maybe I will. But I'll try not to be an ass.

Health care is a big issue. BIG. But it's another red tape situation that should be handled by the CEO's and people who run it. Same with the bailouts, which is a whole other can of worms. It won't be a revolutionary change though. If the "change" ever happens.

The Internet didn't need to be pushed. Porn did all the work for the net. Clinton was great as a talking head, he made a lot of right decisions to help our economy, overall a good President, but an awful leader. He lied to all of us, and with the help of his wife, made a mockery of marriage. If what the conspiracy theorists suggest is true, JFK cheated on his wife (possible with multiple partners), but JFK never held a conference and lied to everyone.

I'm sure there was a rather small (less than 20%) group of people who opposed the moon landing, and I'm happy to say those people are/were stupid. We landed on the moon.

[Limewater]

Having opinions about politics is great, but unless someone is either experienced in it, or highly educated in it, opinions don't mean squat.

Except that in the United States, a bunch of old guys a long time ago meant that your opinion can affect the laws that govern some other guy you've never met who lives a thousand miles away.

Here's my uneducated and inexperienced opinion:

We haven't had a leader as a President in decades.
Case in point, Carter. Great President, horrible leader. Clinton, great President, awful leader.

Actually, Jimmy Carter is generally regarded to have been a crappy president. Heh, I actually live, like, two miles from the Carter Center here in Atlanta.

Now, who is the last great leader we've had?

JFK? Possibly. The man set extraordinary goals, and followed them out. This country is founded on revolution, but the only place I've seen true revolution in the past three decades was in Germany, when they tore down the wall.

I don't want to get into Reagan worship, but he's generally considered to have been a pretty effective leader. I was really too young during his presidency to observe directly, though. Also, I don't really see where former President Clinton was lacking in leadership.

I feel ashamed that I live in the "Greatest Country on Earth" and we still have children going to sleep without a bed and a full stomach,

Are you sure this statement is accurate? I mean, in a sense I'm sure it is true, but only in the sense it is true for any developed nation on the planet. Even the poor in the United States do pretty well, when you look at most of the world's population.

Not to worry, I'm not going to be an Internet asshole and argue with you sentence by sentence.

Whoops. Guess I'm an "Internet asshole" now. I thought you were the one advocating keeping things civil. (Why the heck is there an "arrow" smiley?)

[pepharytheworm]

I don't think Luke thought Carter was a good president, I don't think anyone did. Didn't he get a nobel prize too.

[Luke]

Not to worry, I'm not going to be an Internet asshole and argue with you sentence by sentence.

Whoops. Guess I'm an "Internet asshole" now. I thought you were the one advocating keeping things civil. (Why the heck is there an "arrow" smiley?)

[Limewater]

I'm sure there was a rather small (less than 20%) group of people who opposed the moon landing, and I'm happy to say those people are/were stupid. We landed on the moon.

This is probably a good discussion for another thread, but if I've always thought that the moon landing was a bad idea. It was fun and all, but the year they did it it was 5% of the federal budget. That's a lot of money just to beat the Russians to a barren desert and yell "FIRST!"

It's probably not as silly as sending John Glenn back to space, though.

[Luke]

I'm sure there was a rather small (less than 20%) group of people who opposed the moon landing, and I'm happy to say those people are/were stupid. We landed on the moon.

This is probably a good discussion for another thread, but if I've always thought that the moon landing was a bad idea.

It's probably not as silly as sending John Glenn back to space, though.

We also sent an NSync member to space, but he paid for it.

Lime, we can hijack this thread. No use for starting another one if the discussion is actually going somewhere.

In my experience, everyone who was alive was extremely excited when the declaration was made that we would land on the moon. We're talking about a time before VCR's, before everyone had a microwave, and our leader is saying we are going to put a man on the moon. Incredible.