Should The Redskins change their name and Logo?

[prfsnl_gmr]

I voted "yes", BTW. I think that the Redskins should change their name and logo. (Likewise, the Cleveland Indains should also change their name and much more offensive logo.) I do not have a problem with the Chiefs or Seminoles, however.

[Menegrothx]

To me, a racial slur is a racial slur. If there are Native Americans that get as offended by the term redskin as black people would get offended by the term nigger, what is different there?

12.6% of the population vs 0.9% of the population. Smaller minority. And if the issue isn't (as) openly discussed, people pay less attention to it (compared to how much attention has been given to white on black racism over the years).
According to those statistics, almost 1 out of 100 Americans are Native Americans: is that true or does that count people whose "grandmother was half Cherooke" as sort of Native Americans? You don't really see all that many Native Americans in movies and TV shows so that number seems off to me, but then again I've never been to America. But if it was true, you'd ought to see a lot more Native Americans in media - roughly 1 for every 13 African Americans, but in reality that ratio is nothing like that. Navajo cops and Alaska state troopers are the only TV shows where there's a significant native presence (that I can think of).

[Luke]

I would be interested in hearing why you think this.?

The origin of the word, the history of the word, and how the word is used within the respected races. I think you'd be hard pressed to find two Native Americans bros hugging and asking "Whud up my Redskin?" (unless they are on a team named the Redskins).

Redskin traditionally refers to the scalp of a murdered Native American, bounty or not. But in order to collect the bounty money, you had to show "The Redskin".

Apples and oranges.

[Luke]

I voted "yes", BTW. I think that the Redskins should change their name and logo. (Likewise, the Cleveland Indains should also change their name and much more offensive logo.) I do not have a problem with the Chiefs or Seminoles, however.

I once put on my Kinston Indians hat (same logo as Cleveland) and Blackhawks sweater and asked my wife "Is this offensive?".

Her response, "Only the hat".

[samsonlonghair]

I have a few thoughts on this subject. None of them actually answer the initial question. They're just my thoughts.

I grew up in Florida where there is tremendous pride for the Seminole tribe who are called "the unconquered people". Florida State University shows great pride in the Seminole Indians. The University seems to maintain a good relationship with the tribe. FSU also offers this course:

AMH 2583. History of the Seminoles and Southeastern Tribes, Pre-Contact to Present (3). This course presents a history of the Seminole tribe in the changing racial, ethnic, economic, political, and cultural context of the Southeastern United States from the fifteenth century to present.

It seems to me that if Cleveland and Washington showed this amount of respect for the indigenous people of this continent, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

It's all academic, though. The team owners aren't concerned with silly platitudes like "respect" or "multiculturalism". They don't care about the color red; the only color they see is green. Remember that money is the bottom line for team owners. If you want them to change the names of their teams, give them a compelling financial reason to do so. If the team owners felt they'd be considerably more profitable changing their team name, those team names would change faster than you can blink.

[BurningDoom]

It's just a mascot. It's not that big of a deal. I'm part indian, my Dad's side of the family being indian (Wintu Tribe). I could care less. I don't think any of us take a mascot seriously as representation of our people.

[jfrost]

They could pull a soccer naming scheme and just call themselves Washington Football Club.

These names sound stupid anyway.

[Stark]

How about Seattle Savages?
As in Randy Savage, of course

Wrong Washington.

[samsonlonghair]

According to those statistics, almost 1 out of 100 Americans are Native Americans: is that true or does that count people whose "grandmother was half Cherooke" as sort of Native Americans? You don't really see all that many Native Americans in movies and TV shows so that number seems off to me, but then again I've never been to America. But if it was true, you'd ought to see a lot more Native Americans in media - roughly 1 for every 13 African Americans, but in reality that ratio is nothing like that. Navajo cops and Alaska state troopers are the only TV shows where there's a significant native presence (that I can think of).

This is why you can't trust statistics. They over-simplify a nuanced issue into a number.

What if I told you that there are many African-Americans who are also Indians? What if I told you that there are many Americans who look (more-or-less) white, but are also Indians? If they have tribal status, that means the tribe has already ruled that they are members. Who are we to say we know better than the tribe?

What if I told you that Indians did not historically consider themselves to be one race of people? The Seminoles are a people; the Iroquois are a people; the Sioux are a people; The Cherokee are a people. These tribes are separate nations just as France, Italy, and Germany are separate nations.

You have to know a little bit more about the history of the matter. We don't talk about this a lot in the U.S. You probably hear even less about it outside the U.S.
Google Andrew Jackson and the trail of tears; It's heartbreaking.

[dsheinem]

That Onion article I posted isn't merely a joke, it's pretty reflective of my view on the matter.

The name has offensive and racist origins and is still personally offensive to some. Shouldn't that be enough of a reason to change it? I don't think folks who argue for keeping the name really have a moral leg to stand on. There's no good argument for keeping it that doesn't sound full of rationalizing at best or ignorance at worst. Who cares if people like it, make money off it, think of it as tradition, etc. if it is an affront to even a small group of other human beings? Changing it isn't being "PC", it's being decent.