Upscaler for composite signal

[Bugsypal]

Hi all, first-time poster here.

Up until now I've been using my Sony PVM9041 for my retro gaming needs, and though it continues to perform superbly, I've grown tired of squinting at its 6" screen!

Unfortunately I don't have the space for a larger CRT, so instead I've had to "downgrade" by connecting my consoles to my LCD TV. It goes without saying that the results aren't great.

As a result, I'm considering investing in an upscaler. I am aware of the Framemeister, but it is a rather expensive piece of equipment. Also, given that my TV is nothing special, and all but one of my consoles are presently limited to composite output, my sense is that this device would be overkill in my case.

My question is, are there any reasonably-priced, readily available video processors that would provide a worthwhile improvement over my TV's internal scaling without introducing excessive lag? I would be willing to consider devices with component, VGA or HDMI output. My main concern is that it can accept and can do reasonable justice to a composite signal (bearing in mind its limitations of course).

Most grateful for any advice offered.

[Kidpanda]

Ive tried quite a few and really the framemeister is in a class all its own. The lag will get worse using other scalers.

[Bugsypal]

Thanks for that, Kidpanda. Are you using it with any composite sources, and if so how does it perform with these? Obviously composite video is an option of last resort, but nevertheless it still managed to look surprisingly good on my PVM. I would be keen to know whether I can expect similarly pleasing results when using the Framemeister with my LCD.

If the Framemeister is the only viable option, I'll likely go ahead and invest in one. I'll probably look into RGB mods for my PC Engine and Famicom eventually anyway, and with the Framemeister I'll be ready to take proper advantage of these. I just wanted to be reasonably sure in the meantime that it will do a substantially better job of scaling composite video than my TV alone.

[Cronozilla]

Even if you weren't going to improve the video quality, removing the processing time for the TV is a big improvement, which the Framemeister helps with greatly. There's still a delay, of course, but it's extremely minimal. I think most tests I've seen it can be below 1ms. Which is excellent compared to TV processing time.

This may be of some interest:
A mod free adapter board for PC Engine/TG16 to give RGB using a Genesis 2 SCART RGB cable. (As well as other outputs) http://www.db-elec.com/home/products/dbgrafxbooster

It's not available yet. Previous price placeholders suggested it'll cost around $55 for the adapter itself.

[Bugsypal]

Thanks Cronozilla, good advice - another point in favour of the Framemeister.

The adapter board for the PCE looks very cool - unfortunately I won't be able to use it in its current form as my EXT port is occupied by the CD-ROM interface. The internal mod replaces the RF socket (which the interface leaves exposed), so in the absence of any other solution, this is what I would plan to do.

[Ziggy]

This is another vote for the Framemeister. Here's the basic advice I always give with this type of question: Go straight for the Framemeister and don't waste your money on anything cheaper. That's what I wish I did. I wasted a lot of money on all sorts of different adapters, scalers and cables. I was never happy, and I eventually got the Framemeister anyway.

If you're able to mod consoles yourself for better video output, then that's just all the more reason to get the Framemeister.

Just curious, what are all the consoles you plan to use on the HDTV?

[arcadifvid]

i use a framemeister and i dont even have any RGB connection to any console.
ill eventually get some RGB of course but funny how i feel, suitable RGB cables are harder to obtain than the framemeister itself.

[Cronozilla]

Sadly, if you live in the US, the cables come at a premium if you want to be sure you're getting a well made one.

https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/ind ... ommon/home

Shipping ranges from $4 to $13 per cable. It's all coming from the UK.

RetroRGB has a lot of information on choosing correct cables as well.

[KalessinDB]

Shipping ranges from $4 to $13 per cable. It's all coming from the UK.

$4-13 per cable for shipping? Or $4-13 per order?

I ask because I just got my Framemeister this weekend and also have no SCART cables yet (well technically I have one, but I don't have an SCART dongle for the Framemeister, just the JP21 one) so I'm looking to order. But I'm wondering if it's worth just saving up and doing one massive order for all the cables I need to maybe help with those shipping costs, or if combining shipping doesn't help much.

Also, another vote for Framemeister being awesome even on composite/s-video.

And from what I've read the lag is more like 20ms or 1.5 frames -- the 1ms one was the XRGB-3, the Framemeister's predecessor that only outputs VGA. I don't play shmups very much, and I don't think anyone's playing competitive level fighting games on anything pre 7th gen, so I'm not concerned over 20ms (which, as previously noted, is still less than many tv's will be)

[Cronozilla]

I tried adding junk to the cart and checking. It appears that $4/$12 is for a single cable and each cable adds $2 shipping. At least to my zip code (which is the west coast). So, getting five cables with tracking would be like $20 in shipping. Or at least, that's the quote they're giving.

I haven't actually used that site. It's just the one I've been looking at and everyone has been suggesting.

About latency, stuff like this makes me wonder if the TV is just junky. That's 120ms delay. It's about 3 frames behind on the LCD than the CRT, the video is 25fps.

Other videos I've seen based on TV timings suggest a similar delay, and that's with the image being at the TV's native resolution.

So, who knows if its because of the framemeister or not.

By the way, the video I saw showing the timings was frames, and not milliseconds, so sorry that was just me remembering the number wrong, they found the timings to be on average one frame off using the framemeister, and that's about 16-17ms. The video also was about finding a TV that was fast. Most other TVs would be off by about 2-4 frames, which is like 33ms in a good case.

They tested the same fast TV with the CVid scaler, it averaged 5-6 frames of delay. That's 83ms, on a TV that's capable of 16ms response time.